Australian T20I XI - Selection Thread

[Beeswax]

Re: Australian T20I XI - Selection Thread

Well I think it's hardly a problem really.

Captains are extremely important in T20s, and Clarke has shown himself to be quite the exceptional captain in this format, really has surprised me. He's not scoring too badly, and has even bumped himself out of the batting line up lately. He's shown a lot of sensibility captaining, batted decently, bowled well and fielded brilliantly.

I think you could drop the two best performing players in that side and the team would still win. Just goes to show how good Australia is cricket-wise. Lots of respect to the team management for how they have decided to take T20s seriously, and the machine rolls on.

I'm not so sure about that, what if Tait and Nannes are dropped

I think Clarke is fairly aggressive as a captain, he gives his quicks slips more than Punter ever did.

Drop Haddin and give Paine a game. If there is a more over-rated player than Brad Haddin in the Aus team, I'd like to know who he is. He can use his feet beautifully when batting but is so full of himself that he just doesn't bother to a lot of the time.

I've seen him get out more often than any other of our players to what can only be called brainless, leaden-footed wafts. And his keeping to slow bowlers can be pretty ordinary too.

Anyway, I have been on a couple of other forums and a few fans of opposing teams are convinced that the Gros Inlet wicket will render the Aus quicks ineffective which means our attack is down the toilet. Despite them having already played there 3 times. Fair bit of chest-beating going on from England, both in press and fan wise.

What does anyone else think? That depends on them going through of course, but I really can't see them not.

 

[Boris]

Re: Australian T20I XI - Selection Thread

I'm not so sure about that, what if Tait and Nannes are dropped

Fair point

Drop Haddin and give Paine a game. If there is a more over-rated player than Brad Haddin in the Aus team, I'd like to know who he is. He can use his feet beautifully when batting but is so full of himself that he just doesn't bother to a lot of the time.

I've seen him get out more often than any other of our players to what can only be called brainless, leaden-footed wafts. And his keeping to slow bowlers can be pretty ordinary too.

I partly agree to this. The only thing that tempts me to say no is that I wouldn't really put him down to doing that much wrong, and his keeping has improved two fold on what it was before he started full time for Australia. I would now call him the most skilled glove man in Australia because of it.

Otherwise I fully agree, Paine's batting could be more than useful.

Anyway, I have been on a couple of other forums and a few fans of opposing teams are convinced that the Gros Inlet wicket will render the Aus quicks ineffective which means our attack is down the toilet. Despite them having already played there 3 times. Fair bit of chest-beating going on from England, both in press and fan wise.

What does anyone else think? That depends on them going through of course, but I really can't see them not.

I don't think the pitch will render them useless. Maybe slightly less effective, but still effective enough, especially as you said they've played there 3 times and won every time.

Think it's just wishful thinking to be honest.

 

[eddiesmith]

Re: Australian T20I XI - Selection Thread

Well actually Australia has only played there once, funnily enough against Pakistan their semi final opponent

 

[Beeswax]

Re: Australian T20I XI - Selection Thread

Well actually Australia has only played there once, funnily enough against Pakistan their semi final opponent

They played their beer matches there as well. And it was the spin bowlers that got hit around not Tait or Johnson.

Hauritz got truly stitched up in the second beer match, but Smith is such a fine fielder, (he makes me drool with the ease of his catching) and solid enough batsmen that he will just have to do for now as a bowler.

 

[Boris]

Re: Australian T20I XI - Selection Thread

The Australian side currently is doing exactly what is needed - everyone chips in. Not every game is the same person a hero, but each game someone different chips in.

To show this, here are the combined stats of the pace trio (presuming these are the top 3 bowlers this tournament for Australia, despite Smith having one more wicket than Tait and Johnson, the other two have bowled a lot more and a lot more economical):

Overs       Runs       Wickets       Average       Economy       S/R
49          281        29             9.69         5.73         10.14

Compare this with the top three bowlers of England of Swann, Broad and Sidebottom:

Overs       Runs       Wickets       Average       Economy       S/R
52.2        374        25             14.96        7.15         12.56

The same is true of batting. Taking the top 6 best batsmen of each side and combining them as if they were one batsman:

Australia:

Inn       NO       Runs       Average       SR
29        6        690        30            141.39

England:

Inn       NO       Runs       Average       SR
35        7        794        28.36         129.11

It has to be said that these two sides are the top two sides, and after versing similar opponents and not having versed each other I think it shows how well Australia is performing as a team. There aren't really individual shining lights in the Aussie squad, you could say that Nannes is the leading wicket taker, but then you would have to say in the same sentence that Tait is going for less than 5 rpo, and Johnson is averaging beneath 10 as well.

England you would say that Pieterson is the best batsman by far this series. Australia you wouldn't be able to say who is the best, everyone is equally as high as one another, and they have all had their highs and lows, but crucially not at the same time.

I'm saying this because this unit looks a lot better than it has in the past, such a big step forward. England are playing brilliantly this year, but no matter who wins the tournament proper, this is a huge step forward for Australia in this format, to have a squad such as this performing such as this.

 

[Beeswax]

Re: Australian T20I XI - Selection Thread

Go away with those stats.

It's like the Ashes all over again and we know how that ended up.

 

[Beeswax]

Re: Australian T20I XI - Selection Thread

I agree about how encouraging it is in terms of the squad. They have outperformed my expectations by getting to the semi- I thought they'd be out in the Super8's.

They really seem to have learnt how to work with their limitations and make the best of them.

But Clarke has to, at some point, score at least at a run a ball. It's getting embarrassing for him. If he had stuck around today, he would have sunk the ship.

 

[Boris]

Re: Australian T20I XI - Selection Thread

Go away with those stats.

It's like the Ashes all over again and we know how that ended up.

I'm not comparing the two for the final, if I were doing that it would be on the T20WC board not the Australian one, it's just at the moment England are the second best side, and they just happen to be alongside them in the final that is happening now.

Whatever happens in the final, this is the first time I have been happy with Australia's performance in T20s, even the BigBash I haven't been happy with. It is this series they have played as a team, not just a mixture of X Factor names that may or may not produce the goods. Finally there are 4 bowlers who bowl together as a unit, and 6 batsmen that bat together as a unit, not single entities. These are the first T20s I have watched where there haven't been stupid commercialist ploys, it's 11 of the best Australians playing cricket and not 7 of them with 4 international players, 2 of them retired, ropes brought in about 50 metres and ads flying everywhere. There are no really big names, just people that play good cricket. Finally I can give a bit of respect to this format.

Name another team in the world currently that doesn't have a problem in their team. The biggest problem for Australia now is Clarke, but he hasn't really let the side down that much, very good captaincy is what he has provided.

 

[eddiesmith]

Re: Australian T20I XI - Selection Thread

I think Australia would be in big trouble without Hussey, they will need to rethink their batting order after this tournament as they dont usually play Hussey in the regular T20 games and he probably wont be around for the next tournament, they need to find another finisher, I also dont think Haddin belongs at no4, he should either be opener or 7

The bowling is fairly positive, probably should bowl Dussey more than they do, Steve Smith still isnt there as a bowler but worth persisting with here to hold back the ridiculous calls for his inclusion to the test side

 

[Boris]

Re: Australian T20I XI - Selection Thread

I think Australia would be in big trouble without Hussey, they will need to rethink their batting order after this tournament as they dont usually play Hussey in the regular T20 games and he probably wont be around for the next tournament, they need to find another finisher, I also dont think Haddin belongs at no4, he should either be opener or 7

The bowling is fairly positive, probably should bowl Dussey more than they do, Steve Smith still isnt there as a bowler but worth persisting with here to hold back the ridiculous calls for his inclusion to the test side

So far they have shuffled the order as needed so Haddin is anywhere from 3 to 7. Finding another finisher will be hard, but there are plenty of batsmen performing in the Big Bash, one of them will slip in there somewhere quite nicely.

Dussey has bowled brilliantly, but I think he's a Katich type bowler, don't bowl him unless you really need a wicket. Put him on longer than that and he'll probably get smashed around. Batsmen seem to see him as a scapegoat, easy runs in the middle when they need them, and then screw it up.

Smith has also bowled pretty well, and batted enough at the very end to save him. He's sticking around.

 

[eddiesmith]

Re: Australian T20I XI - Selection Thread

But this is T20, there is only 4 overs allowed anyway, no time for them to get on top, fact is he has outbowled Clarke and Smith considerably and yet only had the 8 overs in 6 matches

 

[Boris]

Re: Australian T20I XI - Selection Thread

But this is T20, there is only 4 overs allowed anyway, no time for them to get on top, fact is he has outbowled Clarke and Smith considerably and yet only had the 8 overs in 6 matches

Very true, although I've found Clarke has put him on, he's gotten a wicket, and then taken him off straight after he had been carted a couple of balls, to not let things get carried away.

The important thing is that it has worked.

 

[eddiesmith]

Re: Australian T20I XI - Selection Thread

Usually after he has bowled himself and got carted

 

[Beeswax]

Re: Australian T20I XI - Selection Thread

So far they have shuffled the order as needed so Haddin is anywhere from 3 to 7. Finding another finisher will be hard, but there are plenty of batsmen performing in the Big Bash, one of them will slip in there somewhere quite nicely.

Dussey has bowled brilliantly, but I think he's a Katich type bowler, don't bowl him unless you really need a wicket. Put him on longer than that and he'll probably get smashed around. Batsmen seem to see him as a scapegoat, easy runs in the middle when they need them, and then screw it up.

Smith has also bowled pretty well, and batted enough at the very end to save him. He's sticking around.

I've changed my mind about Clarke after today. He bottled it. His running was very poor through nerves I assume, he basically ran out Warner and tried to run out Hads and Duss then IN A FINAL, stuffed around as usual without getting out early which has been his great asset, The getting out early, not the stuffing around.

He was equally poor in the semi-final and should feel pretty much like kissing Mussey's feet for rescuing the team, (he probably owe's White a snog as well). What is the point of having someone with captaincy nous when they are going to stuff you up in other ways?

And he didn't bowl Duss, didn't even give him one over, even though Smith had been ok. Watson has been pretty much crud all tournament so where did he get off giving him three overs? Very poor there.

 

[eddiesmith]

Re: Australian T20I XI - Selection Thread

It was a shocking performance, to take Smith off after 1 over and yet keep bowling Watson was disgraceful as well as overlooking the Hussey brothers, he just wasnt willing to try anything different, obviously he was next in his pecking order and didnt want the pressure of bowling in a final so ignored Duss as well

 

[Beeswax]

Re: Australian T20I XI - Selection Thread

It was a shocking performance, to take Smith off after 1 over and yet keep bowling Watson was disgraceful as well as overlooking the Hussey brothers, he just wasnt willing to try anything different, obviously he was next in his pecking order and didnt want the pressure of bowling in a final so ignored Duss as well

That's what I thought as well. Watson has been so awful in this tournament with the ball. Just help yourself length bowling.

 

[eddiesmith]

Re: Australian T20I XI - Selection Thread

Now the tournament is over, with so few matches played, if Australia do their usual look to the next one then a change in squad is required

Players who should survive and be the core of the side for the next 2 years
Warner, Dussey, White, Nannes, Tait, Smith

Then making up the team you can pick from
Bollinger, Paine, Harris, McDonald, Christian, Marsh, Hughes, Finch, Ronchi, Hastings, Heal, Rimmington

Best XI
Warner, Hughes, Paine, ?, Dussey, White, McDonald, Smith, Nannes, Tait, Bollinger

The tail is a bit of a concern with 3 genuine no11s Hard to pick another batsman to slot into the middle as nearly all of Australias best T20 batsmen are openers, had to put Paine at 3 as thought of Hughes there but the 2 NSW boys probably do better together. McDonald is worth a spot in the side as the all rounder and slots in at this usual position. Bollinger the best of the quicks, but plenty of options around, Smith plays for experience as much as anything

Johnson left out due to workload, doesnt mean he isnt an option just they often rest players, Hussey for a similar reason and unsure of his likelihood to be around, no point playing the older guys in the normal games but always good to know they are there if needed (Obviously the T20 speciallist in Nannes an exception as he doesnt play the other forms)

 

[Boris]

Re: Australian T20I XI - Selection Thread

Now the tournament is over, with so few matches played, if Australia do their usual look to the next one then a change in squad is required

Players who should survive and be the core of the side for the next 2 years
Warner, Dussey, White, Nannes, Tait, Smith

Then making up the team you can pick from
Bollinger, Paine, Harris, McDonald, Christian, Marsh, Hughes, Finch, Ronchi, Hastings, Heal, Rimmington

Best XI
Warner, Hughes, Paine, ?, Dussey, White, McDonald, Smith, Nannes, Tait, Bollinger

The tail is a bit of a concern with 3 genuine no11s Hard to pick another batsman to slot into the middle as nearly all of Australias best T20 batsmen are openers, had to put Paine at 3 as thought of Hughes there but the 2 NSW boys probably do better together. McDonald is worth a spot in the side as the all rounder and slots in at this usual position. Bollinger the best of the quicks, but plenty of options around, Smith plays for experience as much as anything

Johnson left out due to workload, doesnt mean he isnt an option just they often rest players, Hussey for a similar reason and unsure of his likelihood to be around, no point playing the older guys in the normal games but always good to know they are there if needed (Obviously the T20 speciallist in Nannes an exception as he doesnt play the other forms)

As you say, there are 3 number 11s there, could perhaps Harris get a game in there? He's one of the most economical bowlers around, and his batting is pretty useful. Could you sacrifice Bollinger to extend the batting a little? I feel just one more batsman is needed there, if you need 6 off the last over I wouldn't want any of them in.

Agree with you on Johnson, he's bowled well, but he's the premier bowler in ODIs and Tests, no use him being overworked playing the hit and giggle stuff, fairly rigorous on the body it is. Same with Hussey, he doesn't play outside of competitions for the same reason.

 

[Beeswax]

Re: Australian T20I XI - Selection Thread

As you say, there are 3 number 11s there, could perhaps Harris get a game in there? He's one of the most economical bowlers around, and his batting is pretty useful. Could you sacrifice Bollinger to extend the batting a little? I feel just one more batsman is needed there, if you need 6 off the last over I wouldn't want any of them in.

Agree with you on Johnson, he's bowled well, but he's the premier bowler in ODIs and Tests, no use him being overworked playing the hit and giggle stuff, fairly rigorous on the body it is. Same with Hussey, he doesn't play outside of competitions for the same reason.

.

MJ gets rested a fair bit from 20/20's and ODI's anyhow and he wasn't as bad as I expected him to be in the final apart from the five wides. He collected himself. I think Harris will be getting more games than Bolly as they can't have the three 11's.

I'd love Paine or Ronchi to come in for Haddin. He plays such brainless shots with the bat, even in test cricket, or should I say especially in test cricket, and his keeping was poor during the final.

Haddin either loses concentration with the gloves or is just not skilled technically as he lets through a lot of byes generally.

Paine keeps better to slow bowlers from what I have seen. He completed some stunning stumpings off Hauritz in the short time he was caretaking the keeping.

 

[Boris]

Re: Australian T20I XI - Selection Thread

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MJ gets rested a fair bit from 20/20's and ODI's anyhow and he wasn't as bad as I expected him to be in the final apart from the five wides. He collected himself. I think Harris will be getting more games than Bolly as they can't have the three 11's.

I'd love Paine or Ronchi to come in for Haddin. He plays such brainless shots with the bat, even in test cricket, or should I say especially in test cricket, and his keeping was poor during the final.

Haddin either loses concentration with the gloves or is just not skilled technically as he lets through a lot of byes generally.

Paine keeps better to slow bowlers from what I have seen. He completed some stunning stumpings off Hauritz in the short time he was caretaking the keeping.

I'd just hate for Australia to become one of those teams that changes keeper and captain every second week though...

Haddin is a good T20 batsman when in form. It just seems to me he hasn't been in form for about a year. With that lack of form comes those brainless shots, he definitely has the technique.

His keeping has improved two-fold, but saying that I would still think Paine is a better keeper. I don't want Ronchi in the team, Hartley is ahead of him. Hartley was the best keeper in all forms last year, best batsman in the two longer formats and second best (after Paine) in T20s. So for T20s it is Paine then Hartley for me. Hartley is too old for a permanent T20 fixture I think, not in physical years but injury years. He seems to be getting on a little bit now, out a couple of games across the last season.

Paine should come in, but if he does then does it start one of those cycling through keepers (and for that sake captains with the Clarke issue) willy nilly? That is the thing I hate he most. I suppose it has worked for England though