Brett Lee

What do you think Brett Lee's future should be?

  • As a Test and ODI player

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • As a Test Player only

    Votes: 7 70.0%

  • As an ODI player only

    Votes: 1 10.0%

  • None of the above, his international career is finished

    Votes: 2 20.0%
  • Total voters
    10
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B

Boris

Active Member
Brett Lee

i have noticed that i have gotten into a few constructive arguments about brett lee throughout various threads and i seem to be the about the only one on BC that thinks that lee should and will continue in the australian side. i want to put all thoughts here and see if anyone actually agrees with me.

i am taking the positive stance in that he should be playing ODIs and tests for australia for a while yet, and that he was and still is a very good bowler that has aided in maintain australias no.1 test ranking.
 
Re: Brett Lee

As long as Ponting is his Captain, Lee will be encouraged to keep pushing for pace his aging body can no longer deliver. the supreme irony is that towards the end of Steve Waugh's career Lee was being encouraged to develop the skills that might have sustained him in the team for some time yet. when Ponting took over the ODI captaincy he told Lee to bowl flat out all the time- an attitude he carried into the test team.
one of Lee's biggest problems is that he listens to the people he wants to hear; but had he followed Waugh's advice he would be a talented fast bowler instead of an aging express bowler. possibly the most critical advice he missed was (i think) Kerry O'Keefe's badgering a few years back to aim to be Australia's all-rounder. it was just after Watson had broken down for the second or third time; everytime O'Keefe got on the radio he kept plugging the idea and managed to convince several of the ABC guys to at least think the idea was worth consideration. given Watson's glass body and Symond's discipline problems the all-rounder's spot the ACB has been pushing would be his hands down for basically as long as he wanted it.
 
Re: Brett Lee

i agree and disagree with you there. waugh loved his pace, that is why he pushed him to become selected for the team anyway. the last few years, since probably 2005 he has been developing those new skills that you are talking about. when he first started he was an express bowler with only variation in length and line in his armoury, but since just before the 2005 ashes tour (which he didnt do too well as i think he was trying to many things at once) he learnt the art of swing, both normal and reverse and developing a slower ball to play around with. he is not the best swing bowler ever, but some of his wicket balls are some of the best ive seen, like a late swinging yorker at 150 kmh.

also his speed, even though he has developed these extra skills i think he has noticed he is not as much worth to the team without it. in his last two tour games in england he was bowling up to 155 kmh, with his average being about 145, regularly getting into the 150s. if thats not a fast bowler, then i dont know what is. he is bowling almost as fast as he was in his young age, i think the reason he slowed down over the past couple of seasons or so is because of his injuries and stress on his body. now hes had time off and back up to speed, plus adding his reverse swing, his good yorkers, even better bouncers, slow ball and his seamers he isnt the worst of bowlers.

i only became a real fan of lee after mcgrath left the team, he has become very good. i have some interesting facts not many people know about him and when i find them i will post them.
 
Re: Brett Lee

he has always had injury problems- though not so many as some of his fast bowling compatriots. could it be that he has to take the threat of being dropped a little more seriously now and therefore is trying to show his best in the tour games. well he is injured again- maybe it is a sign that he should slow down and develop those skills he needs to transition away from express to simply fast or even fast medium.
his swing bowling would not have him the class of a Fleming or O'Donnell much less an Alderman. and one has to remember that McGrath was not a huge swinger of the ball- but he had phenomenal control of line and length.
of course Lee has his No-ball problem too; how many more wickets would he have if he didn't bowl a no-ball in every ten regulation balls?
Darren Gough was an amazing bowler if for no other reason than that he ran into bowl hoping to get a wicket even when his teammates had dropped seven that day. but because they dropped so many he ended up far short of being regarded as the bowler he deserved. Lee will be much the same- could have been a great but was not. at least in Gough's case he has somebody (s) else to blame; not simply his ego.
 
Re: Brett Lee

even if his test career is finished you cant doubt his ODI worthiness. only one bowler, mcgrath, has gotten more wickets then he has for australia and he got his 303 ODI wickets in record time, 171 matches, the fastest australian to do that. with an average of 22.95 he is up with the top as well.

i think that even if he does slow down he will still be a good bowler. i know hes not a swing bowler, he cant really control it, but that can be an asset in itself. if he doesnt know that he is or isnt going to swing when he bowls then neither does the batsman. i have noticed that randomly one ball just swings by a lot, and when it does he can get a wicket. i am not saying hes a good swing bowler, but he does get a lot of his wickets with it.

i personally think that he should try and extend his career by slowing down, but if he wants to bowl fast and get wickets then yes, he may reduce his career length through wear and tear and injury, but while doing so he is averaging around 6 wickets a match and helping win those matches.

i also dont think there is a suitable replacement for him. the two newbie fast bowlers to the team dont impress me and dont make me think they are international standard if the are both smashed around by tailenders and cant bowl a good line and length consistently.
 
Re: Brett Lee

i am not saying he is a bad bowler. i just remember the way he had begun to develop under Waugh- fewer no-balls and he had begun to develop reverse swing to match Akhtar. now he is a guy who may have a future as a test player or he may have a future as a ODI player or both at a stage of his career when he should have cemented the first bowling spot in the side.
you're right about the other players- Lee still has a chance- but he has to stop listening to the people who say what he wants to hear and find the people who are going to make him a better bowler.
 
Re: Brett Lee

Even in the Lions game where he did take a good haul, he still didn't provide any penetration with the new ball, and got most of his wickets with the older ball in his second or third spells.

Maybe he's not the new ball bowler anymore- Hilfy swings it too well to be overlooked, so if he does grab a test spot its purely to reverse swing it with the older ball as a spell bowler. ;)
 
Re: Brett Lee

i think that was because he was bowling to two bloody good batsman, one of which should be playing at higher levels. he was economical.

and if he isnt a new ball bowler anymore, then so be it, as long as he is in the side.

i shall wait and watch his performances in the next couple of tests to see how he goes and make a further call from there.
 
Re: Brett Lee

you have to agree, the way the aussies are bowling in the second test i think he is needed very much. no one offender entirely though for the poor performance, just all round badness.
 
Re: Brett Lee

the bowlers relaxed after their good work in the first test. the England players did not. whilst Lee might have done a better job i think that he would have succumbed to that same sense of complacency that has taken the rest of the team.
 
Re: Brett Lee

there are thoughts that he may not be back for the third test. my hopes will be that he is but i rather him not play then to injure himself and end his career, that would be a waste.

we will see soon enough whether he is up to the international standard i say he is. its all good blasting people with facts but im hoping he can back me up with performances as well. he clark and johnson for 4 tours straight formed the best fast bowling attack in the world at that time, and the selectors and everyone else seem to have forgotten that. now they are playing incapable siddle and hilfenhaus in the place of a tried, tested and successful attack.
 
Re: Brett Lee

Err... I can understand you being a fan of Lee, but calling him 'tried and tested' when he hasn't played a Test in months, then in the same sentence blasting Hilfenhaus as 'incapable' when he's been performing out of his skin for the last couple of matches sounds a bit thin.
 
Re: Brett Lee

i think if lees fit he"s a certainty to play the 3rd test, he was going to play the 1st untill his niggle and if he"s fit he"ll play, simple as that, but then theres the clark problem, i want him to play as i think he"s our best bowler but id like to see something from him in the tour game first, if he does well then we may see a serious shake up of our team, i dont think we can drop haurtz and i wouldnt be dropping mitch either (because of his batting) and he still took a few wkts allthough he bowled terribly bad, in the end i think siddle will make way for lee and i hope and prey that hussey makes way for clark allthough they"d probably replace hussey with bandaid (watson) if not then hauritz should make way for clark and bowl katich, north, and clarke in short spells, we have to win now so we have to be attacking, i also hope they dont over react with hughes failures, he will need time to develop as he"s only young and we should give him a period of grace i think.
 
Re: Brett Lee

Caesar;357330 said:
Err... I can understand you being a fan of Lee, but calling him 'tried and tested' when he hasn't played a Test in months, then in the same sentence blasting Hilfenhaus as 'incapable' when he's been performing out of his skin for the last couple of matches sounds a bit thin.
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i meant that he has played for a month or so now and is back up to fitness, although this little niggle was playing full pace for a full four days when he shouldnt have yet, but shows that if he goes full out he gets wickets. and i wasnt saying anything about hilfy, i think he has bowled great and i think he will have a good career ahead of him, i was only referring to siddle.

distributer of pain;357338 said:
i think if lees fit he"s a certainty to play the 3rd test, he was going to play the 1st untill his niggle and if he"s fit he"ll play, simple as that, but then theres the clark problem, i want him to play as i think he"s our best bowler but id like to see something from him in the tour game first, if he does well then we may see a serious shake up of our team, i dont think we can drop haurtz and i wouldnt be dropping mitch either (because of his batting) and he still took a few wkts allthough he bowled terribly bad, in the end i think siddle will make way for lee and i hope and prey that hussey makes way for clark allthough they"d probably replace hussey with bandaid (watson) if not then hauritz should make way for clark and bowl katich, north, and clarke in short spells, we have to win now so we have to be attacking, i also hope they dont over react with hughes failures, he will need time to develop as he"s only young and we should give him a period of grace i think.
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i think hauritz has secured his spot now. he has grown on me the last couple of tests and i dont mind him as a bowler, considering he is the best spin bowler so far of the ashes. he has done what i expect of him and i think he is a stayer for now. hilfy has now made it hard for clark to get back into the side, unless siddle is dropped for clark and lee left out. that may just be the case as well if they want to bring clark back, although i have a feeling that the selectors just arent 'excited' about clark. i have a bad feeling that he may be at the end of his international career sadly.
 
Re: Brett Lee

lee should be fit for the fourth test and the selectors seem very keen with him, they are following his performances very closely.

i say yes, the australian bowling attack is half the worth of englands and lee can swing, seam, bounce, bowl with accuracy and extreme pace. just what they need.
 
Re: Brett Lee

There is no way they should drop anyone for Lee after the performance in the 4th Test. Maybe someone could possibly miss out for Hauritz if the conditions suit spin bowling.
 
Re: Brett Lee

no- gotta go with Gideon Haigh on this one- pick your four best bowlers. plus putting Hauritz in the side means that Ponting's weakness with captaining for spin is exposed again.
Lee, if he was going to play, would have been given the nod ahead of Johnson for the fourth test. i think that might be it for his Test career unless England manage to bounce back.
 
Re: Brett Lee

Boris;359495 said:
last test?

if anyones still reading this thread then would you play him? who would you drop?
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There is no way you can bring lee in. I think Ponting gave it away that Clarke will miss out and Hauritz will come in.

Siddle is no world beater but he offers some control, good pace and is under thirty. We shold get away with the ashes, and may win the series, with the core of an attack for the future. If we don't keep playing Siddle and Hilfy we will lose the chance to get games, and therefore experience, into them. With Clarke and Lee nearing the end of their careers and your declaration that Siddle is incapable who is next to come in... Bollinger? Please dont let that be true.
 
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