Drop Johnson/Bowling coach/Pace bowlers

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gbatman

gbatman

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Drop Johnson/Bowling coach/Pace bowlers

Mitchell Johnson shouldn't be playing in England. It's embarrasing to have a test bowler, an opening bowler, who can't get the seam up. Sure the off cutter is ok as a standard delivery if you are a part time medium pace bowler... He's not good enough and should be replaced by Doug Bollinger immediatly until he gets it right.
What's the go with his low arm action? Who's coaching him!!!

Peter Siddle ok I have a man crush on Siddle. Finally someone with pace and aggression! Hellajula!!! An inswinger, great seam, variation and aggression. Give him the new ball Punter! Why waste a new sharp seam on Johnson's crap off cutters!

Ben Hilfenhaus has achieved perfection for an out swinger. Just needs brains! Bowl a straight one more, you have already got some wickets with it in England! Don't get obsessed with the swing. Use variation to fool the batsmen. Well bowled Ben, but you can be better.

Doug Bollinger is tall, accurate, gets bounce, Pace, gets swing and seam and has a fantastic state record adn is going well for Australia A. Get him over to England right away to replace Johnson. Lets get a left armer who swings it and seams it.

We lost a test series in England in 2005 and blamed the loss on reverse swing when England cheated with mints and we lost because we playd out of form Gillespie, Katich, Tait and Martyn while refusing to play McGill while McGrath was injured and Warne was tearing it up. Yep, reverse swing won England the series :rolleyes:...
So we poach their bowling coach... Honestly our bowlers have become worse!
Lets get either Dennis Lillie or Glenn McGrath or anyone else because our bowlers bowl without variation, skill, brains or in Johnson's case, the ability to bowl his stock ball well. Our bowlers aren't being taught how to bowl properly. Our Bowling coach isn't worth a piece of off cheese on a cracker. He's teaching our bowlers nothing. We picked him because he coached a team that won a series by cheating, that got lucky and that played an opposition that got selection massively wrong.

I'm annoyed that Johnson lacks basic skills and that most of our bowlers are 1 trick wonders.
 
Re: Drop Johnson/Bowling coach/Pace bowlers

Mate I think you are being a tad hard on the Australian players and on the bowlers. Lets face it that cricket is a batsmans game .. yes I said it and bowling has become even more difficult due to bigger bats and smaller grounds.

When you mention 2005 did Kasperowich(apologies if the spelling is bad)not also play and was a disaster due to a lack of bowling?

Mitchell Johnson is when on form Australia's best bowler .. ask me I would know as a South African .. lol.The seam issue is one with a technicality and that is that in England the play with Dukes Balls and they do have a pronounced seam and Makhaya Ntini,Dale Steyn also battled with. Remember that the bowlers in the South play with a bowler friendly ball in Kookaburra.

One small correction is that Troy Cooley the Bowling coach which you refer to is an Australian who played for Tasmania and got a better deal with the ECB than with Cricket Australia.
 
Re: Drop Johnson/Bowling coach/Pace bowlers

cricket is a batsmans game... unless you want to win test matches. Try telling Warne, McGrath etc that.

Cooley has done nothing for our bowlers. They still bowl with technical problems, still bowl with little to no tricks and have a poor mentality. The guys not doing a good job!

Johnson got wickets in paceman friendly Australia and SA and did well because he was playing with a poor bowling line up. He's got good pace and bounce but he's no good in england. Get Douge Bollinger over there right away and get Johnson out until he gets it right.

Johnson's bowled nothing but pies and got belted around while taking minimal wickets. Leaking far too many runs and not taking the wickets to make up for it.
 
Re: Drop Johnson/Bowling coach/Pace bowlers

I'm not prepared to blame Johnson's poor bowling on him getting shown up by a change in conditions. He's simply not the same bowler he was in SA. I don't know what's changed but everything is wrong - his action, his delivery. Yes, he needs to sort out whatever it is that's changed things, but he is a very good bowler when he's in form.

I'm very impressed by Hilfenhaus and Siddle. Sure, they're not tactical bowlers, but give them time - they are Test novices. It's horribly unfair to compare their tactical awareness to McGrath and Gillespie at this stage in their careers. They are bowling well, the tactics will come.

The biggest issue I have at the moment is with the bowlers we have not being used properly. People are saying our bowling lineup is crap, but are you sure you haven't just got a bit spoilt in recent years? Look around at the other top Test nations - I don't really think we're in that different a position than most. If Ponting played to the strengths of his bowlers, covered their weaknesses, and made tactical rather than haphazard bowling changes then we would be a thousand times more effective. That's what captains have to do - it's why the captain is more pivotal in our sport than any other game.

It's not like the old days, when we would pretty much get decent results regardless of what combination of Kaspa/McGrath/Gillespie/Lee/Warne we had bowling together at any point in time.
 
Re: Drop Johnson/Bowling coach/Pace bowlers

Caesar;357003 said:
I'm not prepared to blame Johnson's poor bowling on him getting shown up by a change in conditions. He's simply not the same bowler he was in SA. I don't know what's changed but everything is wrong - his action, his delivery. Yes, he needs to sort out whatever it is that's changed things, but he is a very good bowler when he's in form.

I'm very impressed by Hilfenhaus and Siddle. Sure, they're not tactical bowlers, but give them time - they are Test novices. It's horribly unfair to compare their tactical awareness to McGrath and Gillespie at this stage in their careers. They are bowling well, the tactics will come.

The biggest issue I have at the moment is with the bowlers we have not being used properly. People are saying our bowling lineup is crap, but are you sure you haven't just got a bit spoilt in recent years? Look around at the other top Test nations - I don't really think we're in that different a position than most. If Ponting played to the strengths of his bowlers, covered their weaknesses, and made tactical rather than haphazard bowling changes then we would be a thousand times more effective. That's what captains have to do - it's why the captain is more pivotal in our sport than any other game.

It's not like the old days, when we would pretty much get decent results regardless of what combination of Kaspa/McGrath/Gillespie/Lee/Warne we had bowling together at any point in time.
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Do you have any suggestions? Mate, I have been following the game for years and im yet to see a "good or great captain" that has had an ordinary bowling attack or an unperforming attack. Im not saying our attack is ordinary but at the moment it's not performing to its capability.

I don't think you can blame Ponting for Johnson's inability to hit a good line and length. That is illogical - Ponting can only offer so much in terms of encouragement. But this is test cricket, if Johnson is getting belted Ponting has to take him off - he canted baby him. Johnson has to help himself.

How does Ponting play to the "strength" of his bowlers and cover their "weaknesses". That phrase sounds good, but in reality it doesn't mean much. Id really like you to explain what you actually mean?

Basically we have 4 bowlers. If our spearhead is so badly out of form then we are going to struggle especially when all of those bowlers are so inexperienced.

These tactical changes you speak of? Any suggestions? What combinations would you go for?

Just some examples would be great just so I can gauge what you are actually saying.
 
Re: Drop Johnson/Bowling coach/Pace bowlers

LIONS then DAYLIGHT;357042 said:
Do you have any suggestions? Mate, I have been following the game for years and im yet to see a "good or great captain" that has had an ordinary bowling attack or an unperforming attack. Im not saying our attack is ordinary but at the moment it's not performing to its capability.

I don't think you can blame Ponting for Johnson's inability to hit a good line and length. That is illogical - Ponting can only offer so much in terms of encouragement. But this is test cricket, if Johnson is getting belted Ponting has to take him off - he canted baby him. Johnson has to help himself.

How does Ponting play to the "strength" of his bowlers and cover their "weaknesses". That phrase sounds good, but in reality it doesn't mean much. Id really like you to explain what you actually mean?

Basically we have 4 bowlers. If our spearhead is so badly out of form then we are going to struggle especially when all of those bowlers are so inexperienced.

These tactical changes you speak of? Any suggestions? What combinations would you go for?

Just some examples would be great just so I can gauge what you are actually saying.
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Read my comments in the Second Test thread from England's innings.

1) Not persisting with bowlers who are struggling
We've seen it again and again with Ponting - he has favourite bowlers and he will bowl them over after over, spell after spell, even when they're shit. There's something to be said for trying to get a player to bowl his way into form, but there's a limit.

This Test is the perfect example - right from the word go, Johnson was all over the place. But for the crucial first 25 overs he was almost constant in the rotation, bar maybe a couple of overs off. Cook was looking very unsteady, Siddle and Hilfenhaus had him struggling - but he played himself in against Johnson. The lack of judgement in that early period may have lost us this Test.

2) Quit with the haphazard bowling changes
Siddle on for one over? WTF was that about? This happens all the time. Batsman will get set, and then Ponting panics - he puts his bowlers on high rotation and if they don't immediately get results he rotates them out. Then they come back in a few overs later, and the process starts again. What he doesn't do is put on two bowlers who are stringing together dot balls, let them develop a partnership and build the pressure.

Look what happened when he finally let North and Hilfenhaus bowl together for a good period the other day - almost immediately, the rot set in. Is it because they were both bowling phenomenally? Heck no. North was doing nothing special, but he was causing the runs to dry up. Hilfy was bowling well, but he wasn't going to rip through the England lineup alone. But they were both bowling maidens and the combination meant that the batsmen finally got under some pressure, for probably the first time in the innings. That was enough to swing the balance in the bowlers' favour enough for Hilfenhaus to get his foot in the door.

3) Set fields that play to your bowlers' strengths
It's not rocket science. If Hilfenhaus is getting good swing with the occassional straight ball that troubles the batsman, and Siddle is getting good seam movement, DON'T SET A ****ING 7-2 FIELD. The minute he did that, both bowlers were having to pitch too far outside the off stump for the batsmen to be at all worried about LBW. It gave them the freedom to play, whereas both bowlers could have kept them pinned down with the right field to support them.

How's that for a start?
 
Re: Drop Johnson/Bowling coach/Pace bowlers

1. If we are to retain the Ashes we must make changes now. Johnson must go for Bollinger.

2. Johnson has a shocking low action. you can't get the seam up with that sort of rubbish action. Why isnt Cooley fixing this? Why are we playing a bowler who can't get it right when we have Bollinger.

3. Bring in Bollinger and drop Johnson until he gets his sh** together.
 
Re: Drop Johnson/Bowling coach/Pace bowlers

you guys do realise that Bollinger isn't in the squad and that we have lee and Clarke in the wings.

I somehow don't think Bollinger will just fly over and drop in for the 3rd test. Lee will come in, Watson may well come in as well.

Siddle may also be in trouble IMO. Just bowling gun barrel straight.

Clarke, Lee, Hilfenhaus, maybe Watson as well.
 
Re: Drop Johnson/Bowling coach/Pace bowlers

johnsons got personal problems. his girlfriend and his mum are having a huge, very public spat. its pretty obvious its affecting his performance.

warnie reacted quite differently to personal problems....it made him beter. alas johnson is a different kettle. replace him till it blows over..
 
Re: Drop Johnson/Bowling coach/Pace bowlers

i agree with you about dropping mitch, he needs a break, but bollinger ?, bollingers to slow for mine, id rather bracken then bollinger if we must have a lefty, we desperatly need a quality allrounder for mine, and a bowling allrounder at that, mcdonald fits the bill, id drop mitch and hussey and bring in mcdonald and lee, allthough id like to play clark as well, but we cant at present, if mitch plays the 3rd test he must bat at 7 and lee at 8, if everyone thinks he"s an allrounder then its high time we started treating him as one.
 
Re: Drop Johnson/Bowling coach/Pace bowlers

LIONS then DAYLIGHT;357057 said:
you guys do realise that Bollinger isn't in the squad and that we have lee and Clarke in the wings.

I somehow don't think Bollinger will just fly over and drop in for the 3rd test. Lee will come in, Watson may well come in as well.

Siddle may also be in trouble IMO. Just bowling gun barrel straight.

Clarke, Lee, Hilfenhaus, maybe Watson as well.
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Please, oh please Australia pick that attack :D
 
Re: Drop Johnson/Bowling coach/Pace bowlers

Well it was always obvious from the start it would become the Kiss Australias Arse Club, I see any thread that is in any way negative just gets people abusing the starter and the Mods locking it
 
Re: Drop Johnson/Bowling coach/Pace bowlers

LIONS then DAYLIGHT;357127 said:
It's been a while edward.

Cricket board on BF has gone to shit, mainly due to over-officious mods.
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eddiesmith said:
Well it was always obvious from the start it would become the Kiss Australias Arse Club, I see any thread that is in any way negative just gets people abusing the starter and the Mods locking it
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Cricket board on BF has been shit for about two and a half years. A lot of the posters there have no idea, "drop player x, pick player y, give player z a go."

Then you've got the state vs state rubbish, the ridiculous statements made on there and then of course there's the bias. I'd rather come to a place where people can talk about their team in an objective and intelligent way (i.e BigCricket) rather than go "OMG, we r teh best, u r shit LOLZ!!1!!"

I think a lot of the posters there are starting to get sick of it also.
 
Re: Drop Johnson/Bowling coach/Pace bowlers

Lee, Clark and Watson are right armers. We have 2 pretty good right armers in already. Those three don't bring anything different to the attack.

Over there a good left armer would be geat, especially with their two left handed openers. Bollinger is a bloody good bowler and can swing it and bowl tight.

It's simple. Drop Johnson, Fly Bollinger over there. Stupid selection not having him there in the 1st place. Play Bollinger. When Johnson gets his bowlin right in the nets, then play him if Bollinger isn't doing great.
 
Re: Drop Johnson/Bowling coach/Pace bowlers

can't drop Hauritz, go in without a front line spinner and the only wy we'll be ending an innings is by waiting for them to declare. Hauritx has done alright.

Bracken would be better than Johnson at the moment but I still recon Bollinger would be the best fit.
 
Re: Drop Johnson/Bowling coach/Pace bowlers

I wouldn't call Hauritz a front line Spin bowler....He needs time and a specialist spin coach to perfect his craft ... At the moment Hodge is the perfect replacement.. as he adds depth to the batting....and can dish up the same tripe as Hauritz is at the moment with his right arm off spin..There are other options with 4 part timers bowlers Punter, North, Pup & Katich who could be thrown into the mix to change it up a bit.
 
Re: Drop Johnson/Bowling coach/Pace bowlers

I wouldn't be surprised to see Mitchell Johnson dropped but then again he has took a fair few wickets. Whose Australia's highest wicket taker in the Ashes so far?
 
Re: Drop Johnson/Bowling coach/Pace bowlers

hilfenhaus is the leading wicket taker with hauritz just behind. johnson is third, siddle is the last of the recognised bowlers and so he should be, as crap as he is. he only gets wickets when he stares at the batsman and they get scared by his ugliness. sorry to be so blunt but i hate him and is career should have been shorter then poor old mcgain.

this is what i said on the johnson and his missing inswinger thread on this board which matches for here as well:

just hold on and believe for another match. he can and will come back. he uses his different action to his advantage. in south africa he was moving the point of delivery around so some balls were more round arm and skidding and other over the top and swinging. he has lost his groove on the english pitches and the duke balls. he is bowling like he did when he started with queensland. he, along with the help of the bulls great bowling coach, slowly corrected his errors and he got to the stage hes at. he has shown how good he is and what he can do. now hes just got to get through a dip in form and get some bowling in. once a player has cemented their spot in the side they should be allowed to play on through dips like this so that the team doesnt lose a great player. if he gets dropped and clark, lee, siddle, bollinger and so on take his place they are likely going to do well and make a spot for themselves and make it hard to get back in to the side. but they wont be as good as mitch is and will be and to lose him will be a great loss to the side.

having said that though, selectors do have a hard choice to make. they must have learnt from 2005 with gillespie and kaspa out of form. both extremely good bowlers who, especially dizzy, had their spots cemented for a number of tours and years. they both had the same problem as mitch, absolutely blinding seasons leading up to the ashes but the suddenly poor form due to change of conditions. they werent dropped soon enough and pretty much lost a couple of matches for the team. as a result both of their careers ended there because other bowlers made their mark in the time that they were coming back. gillespie racked up great figures and wicket after wicket at first class level, even coming back to the team in the time of injuries and rests for the normal players against bangladesh and got a 4fa, 3fa and scored 201*, and that wasnt enough. it was a huge talent wasted and i think had he been able to play he would have racked up about 400 wickets for australia and figures to match mcgrath. we cant let the same happen to mitch, especially so early in his career. every player has drops in form and they have to be able to play through them.
 
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