England in West Indies
- Thread starter Ljp86
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someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: England in West Indies
Why are there so few West Indian supporters in the crowd. The commentary keeps mentioning the fact that if it wasn't for the Barmy Army it'd be virtually empty there?
Why are there so few West Indian supporters in the crowd. The commentary keeps mentioning the fact that if it wasn't for the Barmy Army it'd be virtually empty there?
mas cambios
Active Member
Re: England in West Indies
Combination of cost, restrictions and the location of the new ground (about 5-6km outside the centre, whilst the ARG is in the middle of town).
A lot of West Indian fans have tended to stay away from games in recent years due to the ICC crack down on what you can and can't take in. Too many restrictions and it kills the atmosphere.
Also bear in mind that it's a smaller capacity than where the game should have originally been played and that most tickets were simply changed from being valid for the second test to the 'third'.
Combination of cost, restrictions and the location of the new ground (about 5-6km outside the centre, whilst the ARG is in the middle of town).
A lot of West Indian fans have tended to stay away from games in recent years due to the ICC crack down on what you can and can't take in. Too many restrictions and it kills the atmosphere.
Also bear in mind that it's a smaller capacity than where the game should have originally been played and that most tickets were simply changed from being valid for the second test to the 'third'.
Re: England in West Indies
England collapsed a bit in their second innings, reaching 8/221 before Andrew Strauss called them in. Only Alistair Cook passed 50, scoring 58 from 103 balls. Paul Collingwood scored 34 and Pietersen 32 but it the West Indies bowlers who had the upper hand as England lost quick wickets trying to score briskly.
Powell, Benn and Hinds got two wickets each as England tried to increase the run rate.
That set the Windies a target of 503 runs and in reply they are 3/143. Ramnaresh Sarwan is 47 not out. Chris Gayle made 46 and Shiv Chanderpaul is with Sarwan on 18.
Another 360 runs required by the Windies, that's exactly four an over but they won't get that. The best they can hope for you'd think is a draw.
England collapsed a bit in their second innings, reaching 8/221 before Andrew Strauss called them in. Only Alistair Cook passed 50, scoring 58 from 103 balls. Paul Collingwood scored 34 and Pietersen 32 but it the West Indies bowlers who had the upper hand as England lost quick wickets trying to score briskly.
Powell, Benn and Hinds got two wickets each as England tried to increase the run rate.
That set the Windies a target of 503 runs and in reply they are 3/143. Ramnaresh Sarwan is 47 not out. Chris Gayle made 46 and Shiv Chanderpaul is with Sarwan on 18.
Another 360 runs required by the Windies, that's exactly four an over but they won't get that. The best they can hope for you'd think is a draw.
LIONS then DAYLIGHT
Banned
Re: England in West Indies
Disappointing effort from the Windies in this test so far, batsmen just gifting wickets making the bowlers look a lot better then they actually are.
Ramdin hitting a rank full toss back to the bowler in the first innings was poor cricket. In the 2nd innings so far one batsmen has lobbed a catch to mid on and one (Gayle) has had a heave across the line.
Still i think that the Windies can hold on for the draw and i hope they do.
Disappointing effort from the Windies in this test so far, batsmen just gifting wickets making the bowlers look a lot better then they actually are.
Ramdin hitting a rank full toss back to the bowler in the first innings was poor cricket. In the 2nd innings so far one batsmen has lobbed a catch to mid on and one (Gayle) has had a heave across the line.
Still i think that the Windies can hold on for the draw and i hope they do.
Re: England in West Indies
Rain delayed the start of play for over an hour, so far we've only had 40 minutes of play today and West Indies have furthered themselves to 3/172, still needing another 331 runs for an unlikely win.
Play has been extended and the lunch and tea intervals have been shifted back but 90 overs may be out of reach today which is bad news for England. Sarwan and Chanderpaul are starting to look alright too on 56 and 34 respectively.
Rain delayed the start of play for over an hour, so far we've only had 40 minutes of play today and West Indies have furthered themselves to 3/172, still needing another 331 runs for an unlikely win.
Play has been extended and the lunch and tea intervals have been shifted back but 90 overs may be out of reach today which is bad news for England. Sarwan and Chanderpaul are starting to look alright too on 56 and 34 respectively.
MinuteWaltz
Member
Re: England in West Indies
Sarwan just retired at 106. WI currently down 256 with 49 overs remaining and Chanderpaul and Nash batting.
Sarwan just retired at 106. WI currently down 256 with 49 overs remaining and Chanderpaul and Nash batting.
MinuteWaltz
Member
Re: England in West Indies
Chanderpaul out on 55. 242 down, 44.2 overs yet to go, Nash and Ramdin in the creases.
Chanderpaul out on 55. 242 down, 44.2 overs yet to go, Nash and Ramdin in the creases.
MinuteWaltz
Member
Re: England in West Indies
Tea with no further loss for WI. Down 224 with 5 wickets in hand. Ramdin and Nash have a partnership of 18 currently. Still 38 overs to play, so should be interesting to see if the WI can run this out for a draw.
Tea with no further loss for WI. Down 224 with 5 wickets in hand. Ramdin and Nash have a partnership of 18 currently. Still 38 overs to play, so should be interesting to see if the WI can run this out for a draw.
MinuteWaltz
Member
Re: England in West Indies
Nash out LBW. 35 overs remaining, only 4 wickets in hand. Ramdin and Taylor to partner now.
Nash out LBW. 35 overs remaining, only 4 wickets in hand. Ramdin and Taylor to partner now.
mas cambios
Active Member
Re: England in West Indies
Tough going for both teams but an exciting finish on the cards.
Tough going for both teams but an exciting finish on the cards.
MinuteWaltz
Member
Re: England in West Indies
WI just streched out for the draw. Final innings score 370/9 in 127 overs. Wow, great tailend batting by Benn, Powell, and Edwards.
WI just streched out for the draw. Final innings score 370/9 in 127 overs. Wow, great tailend batting by Benn, Powell, and Edwards.
mayhem20202
New Member
Re: England in West Indies
Interesting that some people think England is a chance to win the Ashes next time round, and they can't even beat the Windies! Haha. The Windies have a bloke playing for them who couldn't get a game in Aus domestic cricket and England can't even beat them!
Interesting that some people think England is a chance to win the Ashes next time round, and they can't even beat the Windies! Haha. The Windies have a bloke playing for them who couldn't get a game in Aus domestic cricket and England can't even beat them!
mas cambios
Active Member
Re: England in West Indies
A better performance from England, especially after the 51 all out mess but there are still areas that cause worry.
Batting still looks ropey at times, Cook needs to start turning 50's into 100's, it's becoming a big problem. Shah had an ok match, looked more solid than Bell, deserves a run in the team.
Collingwood, what can you say? I know a lot of people will applaud him for a gutsy ton but that is probably all he will do in this series. He has a habit of making a big score when he needs thems in order to stay in the side. Consistency is what we'd rather have, although it's hard to question his fight and he's still one of our best, if not best fielder.
Bowling attack is maybe the biggest worry, again we've been in a winning position but haven't been able to take 20 wickets. Anderson did precious little until the end of the 2nd innings, Harmison bowled well but without real menace and Freddie was crocked.
Positives in Broad looking more like a test match bowler and one who thinks at that. Seems able to work out a batsman and then target those areas, which is key. Swann also bowled well, a deserved 8 or so wickets in the match. Unlike Panesar, he's not afraid to try things and vary his line/length/pace, also adds a bit extra with the bat; if only we could combine the two.
At the moment, I can't help thinking that we're one or two 'world class' players short of being a very good side. If Simon Jones was fit then he'd add that something extra we've been lacking in the bowling department, maybe likewise with the batting if Tresco was able to return. If not those two then we need something along those lines.
Again, credit to the West Indies, they fought hard and team work was the key, as in the first test. Sarwan is in imperious form and at the moment is the danger man for them.
A better performance from England, especially after the 51 all out mess but there are still areas that cause worry.
Batting still looks ropey at times, Cook needs to start turning 50's into 100's, it's becoming a big problem. Shah had an ok match, looked more solid than Bell, deserves a run in the team.
Collingwood, what can you say? I know a lot of people will applaud him for a gutsy ton but that is probably all he will do in this series. He has a habit of making a big score when he needs thems in order to stay in the side. Consistency is what we'd rather have, although it's hard to question his fight and he's still one of our best, if not best fielder.
Bowling attack is maybe the biggest worry, again we've been in a winning position but haven't been able to take 20 wickets. Anderson did precious little until the end of the 2nd innings, Harmison bowled well but without real menace and Freddie was crocked.
Positives in Broad looking more like a test match bowler and one who thinks at that. Seems able to work out a batsman and then target those areas, which is key. Swann also bowled well, a deserved 8 or so wickets in the match. Unlike Panesar, he's not afraid to try things and vary his line/length/pace, also adds a bit extra with the bat; if only we could combine the two.
At the moment, I can't help thinking that we're one or two 'world class' players short of being a very good side. If Simon Jones was fit then he'd add that something extra we've been lacking in the bowling department, maybe likewise with the batting if Tresco was able to return. If not those two then we need something along those lines.
Again, credit to the West Indies, they fought hard and team work was the key, as in the first test. Sarwan is in imperious form and at the moment is the danger man for them.
LIONS then DAYLIGHT
Banned
Re: England in West Indies
One thing about England is that the nucleus of the team that was humulated here in 2006/07 is still present.
The likes of Anderson, Harmison and Bell should have been given the boot some time ago. England are more then "one or two" players from being a "very good side" as you put it. They are an ordinary side, and have been for a long period of time bar 2004-05.
Harmison took 2 wickets in this match and has offered very little with the ball. After taking 10 wickets @ 55.4 in Australia last Ashes i thought his career would be over. Jason Gillespie and Michael Kasprowicz were given the boot very quickly after a bad performance. Bear in mind Jason Gillespie had been our best bowler in India in 2004 and at that stage it was inconceivable that he would not be in the team a year later.
Swann bowled nicely but it's important to keep his figures in perspective considering one WI batsmen hit a full toss straight back to him.
England should have declared earlier, last year WI held out against Australia easily so they were more then capable.
One thing about England is that the nucleus of the team that was humulated here in 2006/07 is still present.
The likes of Anderson, Harmison and Bell should have been given the boot some time ago. England are more then "one or two" players from being a "very good side" as you put it. They are an ordinary side, and have been for a long period of time bar 2004-05.
Harmison took 2 wickets in this match and has offered very little with the ball. After taking 10 wickets @ 55.4 in Australia last Ashes i thought his career would be over. Jason Gillespie and Michael Kasprowicz were given the boot very quickly after a bad performance. Bear in mind Jason Gillespie had been our best bowler in India in 2004 and at that stage it was inconceivable that he would not be in the team a year later.
Swann bowled nicely but it's important to keep his figures in perspective considering one WI batsmen hit a full toss straight back to him.
England should have declared earlier, last year WI held out against Australia easily so they were more then capable.
mayhem20202
New Member
Re: England in West Indies
Commentators were talking towards the end of the Test about how if the West Indies had have shown a little more pride in their wickets in the first innings and been able to bat for 20 overs longer, then they wouldn't have been in the position to have to bat 9 down for 20 overs at the end. They then turned it around and said, that England are going to regret looking at the scoreboard at the end and seeing the Windies 9 down, 150 runs short of the target, and basically said that England could have declared 80 runs earlier and still had nearly a whole extra session to in theory get 1 more wicket.
On the whole sides are a lot more cautious now with their declarations, the days of setting a 5th day target of 260 are over, because sides are regularly knocking off 260 - 300 to win tests.
Commentators were talking towards the end of the Test about how if the West Indies had have shown a little more pride in their wickets in the first innings and been able to bat for 20 overs longer, then they wouldn't have been in the position to have to bat 9 down for 20 overs at the end. They then turned it around and said, that England are going to regret looking at the scoreboard at the end and seeing the Windies 9 down, 150 runs short of the target, and basically said that England could have declared 80 runs earlier and still had nearly a whole extra session to in theory get 1 more wicket.
On the whole sides are a lot more cautious now with their declarations, the days of setting a 5th day target of 260 are over, because sides are regularly knocking off 260 - 300 to win tests.
mas cambios
Active Member
Re: England in West Indies
Then again, how many of the Australian players who played in that series are still active? Australia no longer have the likes of McGrath or Warne (or even Hayden and Langer) who had a hold on numerous England squads through the years.
Both teams have lost series to India and South Africa in recent times, both teams have had some degree of 'upheaval' whether it be playing staff or management etc.
Not for one minute do I think that England will coast to the Ashes, but then nor do I think Australia will. I do have to concede that Australia are starting to look the more settled at the moment and will no doubt come over as favourites.
Back to the recent game and well, declarations are funny things and in some ways a little 'damn if you do, damn if you don't'. Did England bat too slowly whilst setting a target or did they leave it too late? Should they have enforced the follow-on in the first place?
A lot of 'what ifs' and no easy answers. I suppose in some ways Strauss felt his hand forced as he had one bowler injured and another feeling unwell, hence the batting again. I'm sure that the team are also carrying some scars from what happened against SA last summer and India recently. Make sure that the game is 'safe', then go for a win. A negative mindset but an understandable one given that England are a team that have seemingly forgotten how to win.
LIONS then DAYLIGHT;327408 said:
Then again, how many of the Australian players who played in that series are still active? Australia no longer have the likes of McGrath or Warne (or even Hayden and Langer) who had a hold on numerous England squads through the years.
Both teams have lost series to India and South Africa in recent times, both teams have had some degree of 'upheaval' whether it be playing staff or management etc.
Not for one minute do I think that England will coast to the Ashes, but then nor do I think Australia will. I do have to concede that Australia are starting to look the more settled at the moment and will no doubt come over as favourites.
Back to the recent game and well, declarations are funny things and in some ways a little 'damn if you do, damn if you don't'. Did England bat too slowly whilst setting a target or did they leave it too late? Should they have enforced the follow-on in the first place?
A lot of 'what ifs' and no easy answers. I suppose in some ways Strauss felt his hand forced as he had one bowler injured and another feeling unwell, hence the batting again. I'm sure that the team are also carrying some scars from what happened against SA last summer and India recently. Make sure that the game is 'safe', then go for a win. A negative mindset but an understandable one given that England are a team that have seemingly forgotten how to win.
Re: England in West Indies
Well batted from West Indies, I didn't think they'd make a draw but they did well. Powell and Edwards held on nicely at the end. Sarwan batted well yet again and is looking in good touch, Chanderpaul chipped in and the tail showed they have some ticker.
England probably batted a little too slowly early on day four but they did pretty much everything right. It came down to the bowlers in the end and after 128 overs they couldn't take ten West Indian wickets. That comes as across as a lack of penetration. Swann and Broad bowled well but Anderson and Harmison couldn't come up with the goods and Flintoff bowled injured. You won't win games with two and half bowlers.
I really don't think England could have done much more, they just couldn't get the wickets they needed and that problem solely rests on the bowling attack. They should have won today.
Sarwan was Man of the Match.
Well batted from West Indies, I didn't think they'd make a draw but they did well. Powell and Edwards held on nicely at the end. Sarwan batted well yet again and is looking in good touch, Chanderpaul chipped in and the tail showed they have some ticker.
England probably batted a little too slowly early on day four but they did pretty much everything right. It came down to the bowlers in the end and after 128 overs they couldn't take ten West Indian wickets. That comes as across as a lack of penetration. Swann and Broad bowled well but Anderson and Harmison couldn't come up with the goods and Flintoff bowled injured. You won't win games with two and half bowlers.
I really don't think England could have done much more, they just couldn't get the wickets they needed and that problem solely rests on the bowling attack. They should have won today.
Sarwan was Man of the Match.
SHANEBOURNEorWARNE
Active Member
Re: England in West Indies
I love this! ENGLAND are a disgrace, can't beat the West Indies deary me.
No matter how bad Australia get, there's one thing we'll always hold..........and that's the little thing called the ASHES
I love this! ENGLAND are a disgrace, can't beat the West Indies deary me.
No matter how bad Australia get, there's one thing we'll always hold..........and that's the little thing called the ASHES