Test XI Selection Thread

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The Argus report into cricket was a damning and scathing report into the failure of cricket and the subsequent fall out resulted in the sackings of Hilditch, Greg Chappell and Tim Nielsen. CEO James Sutherland avoided any serious scrutiny, although the inference was that he had been asleep at the wheel for the preceding four years. Nearly two years from when the Argus report was presented, and on the eve of the First Test, James Sutherland has intervened and sacked the coach with two years remaining on his contract and effectively dropped Michael Clarke from selection matters. There is dissent, factions and a clear lack of discipline within the ranks. Mickey Arthurs was probably the sacrificial lamb, however I suspect that bigger heads will roll if this Ashes tour turns out to be the disaster that all are fearing.
Clarke has been found to be seriously lacking with any leadership away from the cricket field, and the fact that the team management originally had no intention of penalizing Warner brought matters to a head with the likes of Watson who was forced to miss a Test match because he failed to hand in some home work.
Darren Lehman has a lot of work to do. He probably appreciates that this is probably the weakest Australian batting line up since the late 70's when Bob Simpson came out of retirement to lead the Australians against the Indians.
 
After all the anticipation that a new coach would somehow transform the team, reality has finally struck home. Watson lacks the mental toughness and technique to make big scores. Rogers is finding ways to get himself out and needs to make a 100 very soon otherwise his return to Test cricket will be short lived. After a long wait Khawaja got his opportunity and was promptly given a life then played a park cricket shot after losing patience. Pity, because he looked like he had done a lot of the hard work in letting balls go. Not sure he is the answer at 3.

Hughes and Smith have obvious technique flaws and are just not upto it, but there is no one else at the moment. Haddin was lauded as nearly pulling off a miracle win. The reality is that he didn’t and Australia lost. Michael Clarke has to make a big hundred for Australia to post a decent first innings score. Young Agar had the dream debut, but watching him last night hobbling around makes me wonder where will he be when the 10th Test is played in 6 months. Part of the team or Ashton who?

The bowlers have been very good in various phases of the game, but we just haven’t been able to nail it. At the conclusion of the English tour, Lehman needs to throw open the team and inject youth and take risks on some young players. A lot of the State teams need to start giving kids a game and see if we can find the next Test batsmen. The current crop are not up to it and they will just continue to take up space.
 
I agree that change is inevitable. The first test was really a disaster as it only covered up what has now become obvious, we can not bat. With Clarke hopelessly out of form and i suspect still injured, the rest just don't cut the mustard. Looking around though i don't see any great batting talent at shield level to come in. Some value judgements on character need to be made as was done when Geoff Marsh and Boon were selected.

Agar was some fun but the real question is his bowling. He has not looked threatening and in the end he was selected on a hunch that England would find the left armer harder to play. What rubbish Lyon is the best and most consistent performer, he should be selected and leave it alone. Agars innings was great but he is selected to bowl and take wickets which has not happened.

Sorry but Haddin is not the answer and never was. His glove work in the first test was plain awful. He has looked better in the first innings here but his bat in the second innings does not cover what are clear holes in his batting. We need to get these boys playing some shield games so we can take a look at where the talent is and how it is really going.
 
CLOCKER said:
After all the anticipation that a new coach would somehow transform the team, reality has finally struck home. Watson lacks the mental toughness and technique to make big scores. Rogers is finding ways to get himself out and needs to make a 100 very soon otherwise his return to Test cricket will be short lived. After a long wait Khawaja got his opportunity and was promptly given a life then played a park cricket shot after losing patience. Pity, because he looked like he had done a lot of the hard work in letting balls go. Not sure he is the answer at 3.

Hughes and Smith have obvious technique flaws and are just not upto it, but there is no one else at the moment. Haddin was lauded as nearly pulling off a miracle win. The reality is that he didn’t and Australia lost. Michael Clarke has to make a big hundred for Australia to post a decent first innings score. Young Agar had the dream debut, but watching him last night hobbling around makes me wonder where will he be when the 10th Test is played in 6 months. Part of the team or Ashton who?

The bowlers have been very good in various phases of the game, but we just haven’t been able to nail it. At the conclusion of the English tour, Lehman needs to throw open the team and inject youth and take risks on some young players. A lot of the State teams need to start giving kids a game and see if we can find the next Test batsmen. The current crop are not up to it and they will just continue to take up space.
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The state teams have plenty of 'kids' as you call them. Seriously, they have. The PONI's, like Nic Maddinson and Mitchell Marsh get given automatic spots in their Shield team pretty much regardless of how they perform.

We have a 19-year-old, a 23-year-old and two 24 year olds, in the team at present. The second wicketkeeper on tour is 24 and Jackson Bird and that idiot Warner are 26. Hughes and Smith are amongst the best performing young players in state cricket. They need to be given more time. I've never been a huge fan of either of them but I can see improvement, especially in Hughes technically.

Watson is 32 and he's not going to get better. Expecting him to suddenly start scoring decent runs regularly is madness. Lehmann will probably get real about that at some point. I find it interesting that he said he didn't want to keep saying that a big score for Shane Watson was just around the corner. Too right. No point in sounding like a bigger twit that he needs to.
 
Beeswax, my point is that these maybe the best young players a state level but they are truly lacking in the mental toughness and grit stakes. We need to find some tough players that may not be quite the top be able to mentally perform. This was the point i made. When AB became captain simpson and benaud set out to find players that had the mental toughness and ability to take the hits of failure but still fight all the way, they have been very open about this tactic. This is how Marsh and Boon got their starts. Neither was the greatest but they built good careers on guts and determination. This current batch have enormous talent but no spine, so in this adverse situation they have now found themselves in, let's see who among the batsmen will step up in the second innings and the next test. This will tell us who has a future, i still think it will be Hughes and i hope in the next test Lyon will get the chance to show his spine as a spinner.
 
nairbe said:
Beeswax, my point is that these maybe the best young players a state level but they are truly lacking in the mental toughness and grit stakes. We need to find some tough players that may not be quite the top be able to mentally perform. This was the point i made. When AB became captain simpson and benaud set out to find players that had the mental toughness and ability to take the hits of failure but still fight all the way, they have been very open about this tactic. This is how Marsh and Boon got their starts. Neither was the greatest but they built good careers on guts and determination. .
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Greg Chappell was state liaison or youth development or whatever stupid role they gave him for a few years and he was going around the states telling coaches that they were looking for David Warner style players. This was only 2 years ago.

So I can see you not getting your wish.
 
Beeswax said:
Greg Chappell was state liaison or youth development or whatever stupid role they gave him for a few years and he was going around the states telling coaches that they were looking for David Warner style players. This was only 2 years ago.

So I can see you not getting your wish.
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I had hoped it was reason but as you say i am wishing. The Chappell situation is telling and it is the development side that has failed the team. I do believe that the time has arrived to tell our cricketers that if they want to play test cricket there is no IPL for them. If they are serious they need to play County cricket and build their game. They will still play enough ODI & T20 in the UK and the big bash. The ACB could reward these younger players with some kind of contract as well with all that gold they have just stripped 9 of.
 
When was the last time Australia lost 6 consecutive Test matches? Watson will not get dropped because he was given a huge pay increase in his last contract. Maybe they need to start going back to basics and make some of the contracts performance based as well. The way it is looking is that the Poms will win this series 5-0 unless the weather intervenes. Maybe it is time to play the 'PONIS' as you put it. They could not do any worst than the current crop.
 
CLOCKER said:
When was the last time Australia lost 6 consecutive Test matches? Watson will not get dropped because he was given a huge pay increase in his last contract. Maybe they need to start going back to basics and make some of the contracts performance based as well. The way it is looking is that the Poms will win this series 5-0 unless the weather intervenes. Maybe it is time to play the 'PONIS' as you put it. They could not do any worst than the current crop.
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The last time was when Kim Hughes was captain. (i will hold back my usual comparison with Clarke) he then had the grace to resign after five losses. It is the captain grumpy we need now, put the wind up the young players and get rid of the dead wood (Watson, Haddin)
 
Not really comparing apples and apples. The West Indies had one of the most devastating fast bowling attacks ever, whereas the Poms are just bowling stump to stump and our batsmen are getting themselves out. Lovely sledge the Poms use against Watson. Everytime Watson is out they yell at him to review it because there is no way it could be out.And when he does they fall about laughing. What do they do with Agar? He was brought in for his bowling and is probably the second best bat in the team. Not getting wickets so do they drop him or play him as a specialist bat and drop Pattinson for Faulkner? This will leave Smith to do all of the slow bowling.
 
It is not really about comparing specifics. Our great attack was built around a spinner and a stump to stump bowler also, but the West Indies comparo is a good one for the wrong reasons. The way they self destructed after the great era and are still trying to rebuild is a lesson.
My comments are around Clarke when i say captain grumpy. One of the tales of Ashes cricket is the storey told by David Gower of Alan Border. As he says it, Border was one of the most affable blokes in the Aussie team. Great mate with Botham and all round fun guy, then in 1989 he arrived in England and was captain grumpy. No more beers after the game with the enemy, no being nice just business. That was the point where Border said enough and from there we built greatness for a generation. That is what Clarke has to do and find within himself. Stop being such a nice bloke. Stuff the POMS and stuff the spirit. Get tough with the team. Clarke got rid of Katich because he hated the weak girl that Clarke was, but look at the mess, it is hard to argue with Katich. It is for the Captain and the coach to turn it around. Those tough gutsy young players are there, in the team they just need the discipline and leadership. Boof is a great guy and has a good name as a coach but Simpson was almost feared as a disciplinarian and hard task master. they worked hard to be the best fielding team in the world with bowlers like Paul riffle (no offence). Then remember they won the 87 world cup in India with guts and discipline. They were the team that trained and did field drills when the others had beers and laughed. This is where we are at again, the 87 team were no star studded team but they worked for it and every young player new if they wanted to take it from them they had to work harder, players like Hayden, Langer, Ponting, Martin, Boof, Gilcrist, Warne, McGrath. All young players wanting to get there.
 
1987 World Cup team, lots of good names but for hard work not really greatness.
How we won it;
9/10 beat India 1 run
13/10 beat Zim 96 run
18/10 beat NZ 3 run
22/10 Lost to India 56 run
27/10 beat NZ 17 run
30/10 beat Zim 70 run
Semi - beat Pakistan 15 run
Final - beat England 7 run
Ok flogged Zimbabwe but not a single win over 20 runs and one good beating by India. This is the spine and guts we are not showing now. This was built on true grit and discipline as a fielding team then never giving up with the bat. How many of them can you say were great players? maybe 4. From there they went on to win the 89 Ashes in England and set up a generation of dominance.
 
So that's Pattinson on the plane home with a buggered back, I guess Bird will now get his chance? I suppose there is the tour match and for him to go up against Starc.
 
I'd definitely like to see Bird get a go and Lyon come back into the side. In the batting, I still wish they'd give Bailey a go instead of someone like Hughes.
 
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