Who will finish their careers as the better batsmen? Clarke or Ponting?

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Who will finish their careers as the better batsmen? Clarke or Ponting?

Many people classify Ponting as the best Australian batsmen since Bradman, outside of Bradman there is no doubt that Ponting and Greg Chappell or the two batsmen that are the next best.

However, when you compare the cumulative averages of Clarke and Ponting, it makes for interesting reading.

After 95 test innings Clarke has recorded 14 tons (including the most recent today). He has collected 4216 test runs @ 51.41, scoring a ton on average every 6.7 test innings.

After 95 test innings Ponting had scored 13 test tons. Collecting 3963 runs @ an average of 47.86.

It makes an interesting comparison.

The relevant comparison for Ponting goes back to the 2002 Ashes series. Ponting basically flicked a switch and that point. Since that moment he has averaged 60.

So if Clarke is too much Ponting's pace, he is going to have to go up a gear very soon.

We all know that when he was younger Ponting was a bit wild, brawling, drinking and punting. He took a while to get himself together and that did hold his career back for a while.

However, Clarke at the moment is tracking on a similar path to Ponting with regards to career statistics. There is no doubt that this Bingle thing will be a defining moment of Clarke's career.

The question is: Will Clarke go on to eclipse Ponting as the unoffical best batsmen since Bradman? The current tracking appears to suggest that he will.

Surprising?

Yes.

Discuss?
 
Re: Who will finish their careers as the better batsmen? Clarke or Ponting?

Remember that ponting was a failure till 99 and only just kept his spot in the team. After 1999 ponting is the greatest other than bradman. Period. The first three partnership of Australia at the turn of the millenium will possibly never be outshone. Sure clarke is good but not as good as ponting who has basically only been out of form once since 1999.
 
Re: Who will finish their careers as the better batsmen? Clarke or Ponting?

Ponting a failure before 1999, I wouldn't say that.

He played a glorious knock in England in 1997 - he played IMO on of his best ever knocks in Sri Lanka in mid 1999.

'Failure' is very strong.

I remember going to the Gabba to watch Australia play the Windies in 96/97 I think it was.

The Windies still had a formidable attack. Ponting was batting at 3 and played a glorious knock, falling just short of a ton. 2 test matchs he was dropped, in a disgraceful decision.
 
Re: Who will finish their careers as the better batsmen? Clarke or Ponting?

ok. but the point is that ponting was much better after about the turn of the century. Clarke started well and since has gone back to being just a good batsman for the era not of all time.
 
Re: Who will finish their careers as the better batsmen? Clarke or Ponting?

I was just pointing out that Clarke, has a better record than Ponting when you compare both players at the same time in their career.

Ponting went up a level when he was arouund 27-28, Clarke apears to have done the same.

I'm just putting it out there that Ponting, who you feel will retire with about 45 tons, may be overtaken by Clarke by the time Clarke is finished. Clarke is tracking Ponting at the moment.
 
Re: Who will finish their careers as the better batsmen? Clarke or Ponting?

Not sure how old clarke is but he has improved over his career. Unfortunately he is still an easy victim for a patient bowler unlike ponting.
 
Re: Who will finish their careers as the better batsmen? Clarke or Ponting?

clark is not nearly half the batmans ponting is and was, n ore he ever will be. put the stastic aside all you have to do is look at the two different batsman. can you see clarke, turning his carreer around like ponting did and step up a few levels. ponting is a batsman of rare breed that is up in the class of tendalker and lara. clarke is nothing more than an advertage batsman at besti i rate hussey a better bat over clarke.

but others opinion will differ.
 
Re: Who will finish their careers as the better batsmen? Clarke or Ponting?

Ponting played a hell of alot better bowlers in his first 95 innings compared to Clarke who come in at a time where there isnt much challenge for batsmen around the world, the pitches are flatter and the bowlers shitter
 
Re: Who will finish their careers as the better batsmen? Clarke or Ponting?

It's not a fair comparison. Scoring rates have accelerated astronomically since Clarke started his career. His average after 95 innings is not comparable to Ponting's, let alone Chappell's.

To give some perspective, in the '90s three batsmen with more than 20 innings averaged over 50 - Tendulkar, Waugh and Lara. In the 2000s, that list expands to 22, with 13 averaging over 55.

I would argue that Clarke is quite a long way down our list of greatest-ever bats, regardless of what his statistics show.
 
Re: Who will finish their careers as the better batsmen? Clarke or Ponting?

eddiesmith;394111 said:
Ponting played a hell of alot better bowlers in his first 95 innings compared to Clarke who come in at a time where there isnt much challenge for batsmen around the world, the pitches are flatter and the bowlers shitter
Click to expand...

I'm not sure about that eddie.

Many bowlers today routinely bowl at 90 miles an hour, this talk that there isn't much of a 'challenge' is a myth IMO. If anything today the pace of bowlers is consistently higher than what it has been previously.
 
Re: Who will finish their careers as the better batsmen? Clarke or Ponting?

Caesar;394119 said:
It's not a fair comparison. Scoring rates have accelerated astronomically since Clarke started his career. His average after 95 innings is not comparable to Ponting's, let alone Chappell's.

To give some perspective, in the '90s three batsmen with more than 20 innings averaged over 50 - Tendulkar, Waugh and Lara. In the 2000s, that list expands to 22, with 13 averaging over 55.

I would argue that Clarke is quite a long way down our list of greatest-ever bats, regardless of what his statistics show.
Click to expand...

Yeah but it is all relative.

This decade Ponting is averaging 58.73, close enough to 60 for me. There wouldn't be many batsmen that have averaged 60 over 10 years of cricket - least of all many batsmen who have done that batting at 3.

In that regard averaging 60 could well be the equivalent of averaging 50, 10 years ago.

I'm simply putting it out there whether the notion that Clarke may finish his career with better statistics than Ponting is to outlandish?

On the current career track, it's not.

However, the real test will be from now for Clarke. Just before Ponting turned 30 he took the mantle as our best batsmen with two double hundreds against India in 2003.
 
Re: Who will finish their careers as the better batsmen? Clarke or Ponting?

Clarke may well finish with better statistics; I don't think that necessarily makes him a better batsman per the thread title though.

Matthew Hayden has some of the best statistics of any batsman ever, but I still don't rate him above plenty of guys who average in the 40s. An an average of above 50 used to be the hallmark of the very, very elite - the alltime legends of the game. Nowadays it's almost necessary in order to be considered a quality international batsman.
 
Re: Who will finish their careers as the better batsmen? Clarke or Ponting?

what is easier to face 90mph dead straight or 85 swinging and cutting. How many people have you seen swing a ball at 90mph consistently? or even at all.
 
Re: Who will finish their careers as the better batsmen? Clarke or Ponting?

Im not sure what your asking Brickwaller?

Im just pointing out that today there are a lot of bowlers who can reach 145+ and get movement off the pitch or/and through the air.

This notion that international cricket is dominated by pie throwers is absolute crap.
 
Re: Who will finish their careers as the better batsmen? Clarke or Ponting?

true. but have you seen someone as good as wasim or waqar or ambrose or walsh to name a few in this decade that aren't from australia?
 
Re: Who will finish their careers as the better batsmen? Clarke or Ponting?

Probably not, but lets be honest - when these guys retire their ability is inflated exponentially. Look at Lee, when he retired from test cricket people were hailing him as one of "the greatest express bowlers ever to draw breath". In reality, for most of his test career Lee bowled without thought, or discipline.

I just don't buy this attitude that test cricket is full of pie throwers that is so widely put forward these days.
 
Re: Who will finish their careers as the better batsmen? Clarke or Ponting?

Who are the decent bowlers in world cricket? There are none

Lee was a pie thrower, speed isnt everything, as seen by Lee, the faster the ball the harder it hits the fence
 
Re: Who will finish their careers as the better batsmen? Clarke or Ponting?

Decent paceman?

Well lets run through some teams.

Australia:

Johnson, Bollinger, Hilfenhaus, Harris. All of those guys can bowl 140+

Pakistan:

Asif (I rate this guy highly, would love him in the aussie side), Aamer.

South Africa

Steyn, Morkel.

England:

Granted, I don't think they have many seamers to worry about outside England. Anderson and Broad are alright I guess.

India:

Sharma (might have dropped off a bit since 08 but still a potent force), Khan.

There are a heap.
 
Re: Who will finish their careers as the better batsmen? Clarke or Ponting?

So half come from Australia, no bias there :rolleyes:, who Clarke never has to face, the others are clutching at straws and none of them are threatening on the flat tracks produced all around the world
 
Re: Who will finish their careers as the better batsmen? Clarke or Ponting?

whoops I forgot Steyn. Johnson is the only proven one from australia all the rest have had a good series that's it.

Weren't you making a point about how the bowlers were so fast and deadly now compared to then and you add in medium pacer Asif?

Eddie makes a good point in that pitch preparation is getting better and better for batting.

For once I almost entirely agree with eddie.
 
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