Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)

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Darth Spin said:
I also try this concept with "the wrong wrong un", which is the flipper out of the back of my hand and if I bowl it well enough I can produce a small back spinning leg break. it's almost like a doosra but using the flipper click technique.

Personally, I think the flipper and off spin are very closely related and that these variants known as "the wrong wrong un" and "doosra" are also closely related and resemble one another closely.

That's a lot of spin jargon in two paragraphs but I'm hoping it makes sense.

I will try and video my "wrong wrong un" one day to show what I mean, but it's basically a flipper bowled out the back of the hand like a googly. I learned it from Dave's blog. I've never bowled it in a match, maybe I should try it in a friendly and see what happens. I don't really see the point of it, because it will never be better than my leg break, but it is kinda funky being able to bowl a small leg break using a different technique and showing the back of the hand to the batsman.
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When I first experimented with the Wrong - wrong-un, it used to come out really loopy and slow, but it used to turn massively. I can't remember if I ever bowled it in games, but I used to bowl in the nest with it and it used to have batters in knots- especially the better ones that liked to claim they could pick the ball out of hand. 😂
 
Leggy88 said:
After reading Philpott's book, I've realised the slider is probably just any leg break with a bit of backspin. Key words - 'a bit'. Doesn't need to be a lot, cause just a bit will change the ball from dipping with the topspin to carrying through more with the backspin and skidding on.

P.S - If you bowl a standard leg break that doesn't turn and the batsman asks what it was - always say the slider! Heck, even start calling it the zooter and other stuff they call it these days haha.
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Absolutely! Do what Warne did - bowl one ball (Leg-Break) and when it don't turn - yeah call it a zooter, slider or even claim it as a The Orthodox back-spinner!
 
Leggy88 said:
I've never had problems with googly syndrome for some reason. I've been able to develop them at a ratio of 1:1 or so.

I have a theory why this is. When I take my thumb off the ball, I literally cannot get any revs with leggies hand to hand. The ball just comes out weakly with around 20% of the revs I get with the thumb on the ball. I think for me, the thumb actually does a lot of the work in the spinning. When I experiment bowling leg breaks with the thumb off the ball, it comes out like a wrong un off 22 yards. I think this is because without the thumb the action therefore gets more 'fingery' and especially with a high arm action, the fingers are likely to just flick the ball and apply the off-spin if you get it slightly wrong instead ? It doesn't have the thumb to guide it and give control? Does anyone else have a similar experience to me here?

Also, just read Peter Philpott's book - gonna try his 'round the loop' practice next session. Where you bowl in sequence the big leg break, average legbreak, small legbreak, topspinner, small wrongun and big wrongun continuously, trying to spin each as hard as I can. Also gonna still throw in a few flippers at the end of most sequences so I can keep developing them.
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I reckon you're either lucky or a natural, we get so few leggies in my region and when we do get them, they rarely bowl wrong-uns. I think the last time I saw a leggie bowl them at me in a game was about 6 years ago and once he landed it, he then kept bowling it? Be good to hear how you go with practicing and incorporating 'Going around the loop'. I used to do it till I was struck down Googly syndrome, I couldn't even bowl a top-spinner thereafter.😕
 
SomeblokecalledDave. said:
I reckon you're either lucky or a natural, we get so few leggies in my region and when we do get them, they rarely bowl wrong-uns. I think the last time I saw a leggie bowl them at me in a game was about 6 years ago and once he landed it, he then kept bowling it? Be good to hear how you go with practicing and incorporating 'Going around the loop'. I used to do it till I was struck down Googly syndrome, I couldn't even bowl a top-spinner thereafter.😕
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I'll be sure to update you guys on how the 'round the loop' goes.
 
Leggy88 said:
I've never had problems with googly syndrome for some reason. I've been able to develop them at a ratio of 1:1 or so.

I have a theory why this is. When I take my thumb off the ball, I literally cannot get any revs with leggies hand to hand. The ball just comes out weakly with around 20% of the revs I get with the thumb on the ball. I think for me, the thumb actually does a lot of the work in the spinning. When I experiment bowling leg breaks with the thumb off the ball, it comes out like a wrong un off 22 yards. I think this is because without the thumb the action therefore gets more 'fingery' and especially with a high arm action, the fingers are likely to just flick the ball and apply the off-spin if you get it slightly wrong instead ? It doesn't have the thumb to guide it and give control? Does anyone else have a similar experience to me here?

Also, just read Peter Philpott's book - gonna try his 'round the loop' practice next session. Where you bowl in sequence the big leg break, average legbreak, small legbreak, topspinner, small wrongun and big wrongun continuously, trying to spin each as hard as I can. Also gonna still throw in a few flippers at the end of most sequences so I can keep developing them.
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I don’t know whether my situation is the same, but I also can’t bowl without putting my thumb on the seam. If I put the thumb close to the index finger I can do the leg break, if I rest it in the middle of the index and ring finger in the seam (or closer to the ring finger), I can do the flipper.
 
I have another question, do you guys also get some leg break when bowling the top spin? I can’t seem to get the leg spin out of the equation for my top spin. From the app it seems like the ball turns from 1-4 degrees. I guess that’s more like a small leg break that Leggy88 Leggy88 mentioned?? How did you remove that? Just practice more and more or something else?

Also I noticed something, I bowled a ball by putting the ball further away from my palm (following Shane warne’s advice), before the ball was so deep that it used to touch my palm. It felt a bit weird and I didn’t bowl it anymore. But after coming back, I found it actually revved around 11 degree. Do you guys think I should change my action for that extra 1 degree? Because I do feel a bit awkward, but practicing it may make it better. Does anyone else put the ball this deep?

*My concern is that it was just a fluke and I will loose my leg spin by changing the grip.
 
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zjitu said:
I have another question, do you guys also get some leg break when bowling the top spin? I can’t seem to get the leg spin out of the equation for my top spin. From the app it seems like the ball turns from 1-4 degrees. I guess that’s more like a small leg break that Leggy88 Leggy88 mentioned?? How did you remove that? Just practice more and more or something else?

Also I noticed something, I bowled a ball by putting the ball further away from my palm (following Shane warne’s advice), before the ball was so deep that it used to touch my palm. It felt a bit weird and I didn’t bowl it anymore. But after coming back, I found it actually revved around 11 degree. Do you guys think I should change my action for that extra 1 degree? Because I do feel a bit awkward, but practicing it may make it better. Does anyone else put the ball this deep?

*My concern is that it was just a fluke and I will loose my leg spin by changing the grip.
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Yeah totally, to bowl a top-spinner perfectly you'd have to have a near perfect bowling and action and excellent finger/wrist dexterity. The key thing is to just get a lot more top-spin on the ball to make use of the increased dip. If it breaks either left or right a bit that don't matter, just claim it as the batsman calls it. I find having been bowling Leg-Breaks and big leg-breaks when I pull the one with more top-spin out irrespective of whether it goes straight or breaks a bit, it's usually so different from the Leggies, the batsman thinks it's a wrong-un much of the time. I wouldn't worry about any deviations that small, one of the great things about bowling spin is these natural deviations help you out massively and you run the risk of getting bogged down with that app spending time adjusting things that in the greater scheme of things don't matter that much?

With regards the position in your hand - yep, that can make a significant difference to how the ball comes out of the hand breaks off the wicket. Maybe use it as a change up - like a sub-variation?
 
SomeblokecalledDave. said:
Yeah totally, to bowl a top-spinner perfectly you'd have to have a near perfect bowling and action and excellent finger/wrist dexterity. The key thing is to just get a lot more top-spin on the ball to make use of the increased dip. If it breaks either left or right a bit that don't matter, just claim it as the batsman calls it. I find having been bowling Leg-Breaks and big leg-breaks when I pull the one with more top-spin out irrespective of whether it goes straight or breaks a bit, it's usually so different from the Leggies, the batsman thinks it's a wrong-un much of the time. I wouldn't worry about any deviations that small, one of the great things about bowling spin is these natural deviations help you out massively and you run the risk of getting bogged down with that app spending time adjusting things that in the greater scheme of things don't matter that much?

With regards the position in your hand - yep, that can make a significant difference to how the ball comes out of the hand breaks off the wicket. Maybe use it as a change up - like a sub-variation?
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Yeah, the app shows deviation that’s quite hard to see. I am just using it to see where I am at currently, so that I can compare it at a later time to see whether there is any improvement. Guess I will just focus on the line and length for normal leg break and flipper now. Can’t wait to get back to practicing next week (currently in a trip).
 
zjitu said:
I have another question, do you guys also get some leg break when bowling the top spin? I can’t seem to get the leg spin out of the equation for my top spin. From the app it seems like the ball turns from 1-4 degrees. I guess that’s more like a small leg break that Leggy88 Leggy88 mentioned?? How did you remove that? Just practice more and more or something else?

Also I noticed something, I bowled a ball by putting the ball further away from my palm (following Shane warne’s advice), before the ball was so deep that it used to touch my palm. It felt a bit weird and I didn’t bowl it anymore. But after coming back, I found it actually revved around 11 degree. Do you guys think I should change my action for that extra 1 degree? Because I do feel a bit awkward, but practicing it may make it better. Does anyone else put the ball this deep?

*My concern is that it was just a fluke and I will loose my leg spin by changing the grip.
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Ok well to explain how to get the full topspinner (though its not perfect, and as Dave said it's no worry getting a little turn either way) I will have to outline something first. When you bowl most deliveries (apart from flipper), your thumb should always be pointing or in line with the way it is spinning. So if you bowl full sidespin, thumb should be parallel to pitch (if that makes sense) and full topspin, the thumb should be facing directly straight down the wicket (using this analogy actually, full sidespin could also be said to be 90 degrees to the wicket). To get the full topspinner, you often need to overcompensate and imagine that instead of your thumb facing straight down the wicket, it is facing more towards leg slip or somewhere in that area. Then you may find that you actually get pure topspin.
 
Leggy88 said:
Ok well to explain how to get the full topspinner (though its not perfect, and as Dave said it's no worry getting a little turn either way) I will have to outline something first. When you bowl most deliveries (apart from flipper), your thumb should always be pointing or in line with the way it is spinning. So if you bowl full sidespin, thumb should be parallel to pitch (if that makes sense) and full topspin, the thumb should be facing directly straight down the wicket (using this analogy actually, full sidespin could also be said to be 90 degrees to the wicket). To get the full topspinner, you often need to overcompensate and imagine that instead of your thumb facing straight down the wicket, it is facing more towards leg slip or somewhere in that area. Then you may find that you actually get pure topspin.
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Yeah I will try to adjust the wrist as much as I can. As long as it feels to be straight I think that’s enough for me. There are so many things one can do with wrist positioning, it’s quite mind boggling! 🤯
 
No league game yesterday for me because the division the second team plays in had a break this week with no fixtures.

I played in an enjoyable 30 over friendly game at our home ground today in great weather against good opponents, with both teams only having 9 players available. We batted first and were in trouble at 8/2 after 8 overs, but in the end made 137 all out from our 30 overs. I was in at no 9 and finished 9 not out including two fours, for me this represents progress and success with the bat.

Their innings started with a big opening partnership, there were 80 or so runs on the board for no wicket when I was given the ball bowling from my least favourite end of the ground, but up for the challenge of breaking the two openers up. There was this one guy, a right hander, he was built like freakin' Arnie or something. Covered head to toe in sleeve tattoos and sporting some alpha ripped body, tall guy, I would imagine popular with the ladies... his girlfriend watching. He had smashed two massive sixes including one straight over the sight screen from our left arm spinner. Anyway you guessed right, I've given him the big build up and I clean bowled him.

However, after that I was bowling against a left hander who actually opens the batting for our first team and he was nearing his 50. I did okay against him and then with the last two balls of my second over I decided to go around the wicket as I thought I had a better chance of bowling him. This backfired and he pulled both deliveries for four, looking back I should have had a deep backward square but shit happens and I was taken off after two overs with 15 runs and 1 wicket. I did not mind at all as the game was still there to be won, the captain put himself on to bowl and he is more economical than me.

Two more wickets fell but they chased us down with about three or four overs to spare.

A great game played in the right spirit.

My figures for the season:-

22.1 overs
0 maidens
108 runs
9 wickets
 
Hey all, how do you guys know whether you had drift? I can understand whether I am getting dip or not but for the drift I am clueless! I have also tried to put my momentum forward more, instead of pivoting too much which I did earlier. I have attached 4 deliveries, any input is greatly appreciated. Thanks all.

(BTW do you guys think I am getting any drift? It feels like it’s just angling because of the angled release, or is this what drift is?)


View attachment F6A21D82-CB75-4F7E-8D8E-2E874E1738CE.mp4


View attachment F1C836D4-7A61-4881-B0B5-523F6E6878F2.mp4


View attachment D67FD1BE-3ADF-4290-A6BA-8DD5460A08CB.mp4

View attachment 4E941612-3AA5-45F0-A4F0-E4E46BCC061E.mp4
 
Also my plan is to work on my accuracy now (after I get back home in 3 days). I will try to land in 4 (2 by 2 square) A4 paper, 3-4 yards from the crease. Any other drills you guys recommend?
 
zjitu said:
Hey all, how do you guys know whether you had drift? I can understand whether I am getting dip or not but for the drift I am clueless! I have also tried to put my momentum forward more, instead of pivoting too much which I did earlier. I have attached 4 deliveries, any input is greatly appreciated. Thanks all.

(BTW do you guys think I am getting any drift? It feels like it’s just angling because of the angled release, or is this what drift is?)


View attachment 1992


View attachment 1993


View attachment 1991

View attachment 1990
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It’s certainly drifting, particularly the first video.

Drift tends to happen more when it’s drifting with the direction of the ball if that makes sense. So if you bowl legbreak at about leg stump, it will probably drift more than if you pitch one outside off stump.

That might be why it feels like it’s just the angle. If I was more gifted at editing I’d draw a ball tracking line through the video. Although that’s on FullTrack AI so it should tell you, that being said it tends to get late drift confused with spin.

It is very hard to pick up drift on your own bowling for some reason, I struggle as well.
 
doc8176 said:
It’s certainly drifting, particularly the first video.

Drift tends to happen more when it’s drifting with the direction of the ball if that makes sense. So if you bowl legbreak at about leg stump, it will probably drift more than if you pitch one outside off stump.

That might be why it feels like it’s just the angle. If I was more gifted at editing I’d draw a ball tracking line through the video. Although that’s on FullTrack AI so it should tell you, that being said it tends to get late drift confused with spin.

It is very hard to pick up drift on your own bowling for some reason, I struggle as well.
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Yeah, the Fulltrack AI shows the drift, but I feel like it could probably wrong because of the angle of the delivery, after all even a slight angle in delivery will change the spot where it will land. But maybe it is accurate. Btw have you tried the full track ai? If so, what’s the swf you get for your ball? I get from 1-2 swf.
Also is there any way to improve the drift? Or is it something you get naturally?
 
zjitu said:
Yeah, the Fulltrack AI shows the drift, but I feel like it could probably wrong because of the angle of the delivery, after all even a slight angle in delivery will change the spot where it will land. But maybe it is accurate. Btw have you tried the full track ai? If so, what’s the swf you get for your ball? I get from 1-2 swf.
Also is there any way to improve the drift? Or is it something you get naturally?
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FullTrack does seem pretty inconsistent for drift readings.

I normally bowl off spin and I’ve gotten up to 1.8sf.

But I do have some legspin that I normally get a few revs on and I got up to 1.4sf. Didn’t really have any good videos recorded though.

Drift is normally just from a lot of revs yeah. And a vertical seam will make it late drift too. However you can bowl with the seam more horizontal (flying saucer) and it should drift a fair bit but early in it’s flight and you’ll get no dip or spin. You can can go for like a compromise, where the seam is a little tilted to the side but idk if it’s worth it.
 
doc8176 said:
FullTrack does seem pretty inconsistent for drift readings.

I normally bowl off spin and I’ve gotten up to 1.8sf.

But I do have some legspin that I normally get a few revs on and I got up to 1.4sf. Didn’t really have any good videos recorded though.

Drift is normally just from a lot of revs yeah. And a vertical seam will make it late drift too. However you can bowl with the seam more horizontal (flying saucer) and it should drift a fair bit but early in it’s flight and you’ll get no dip or spin. You can can go for like a compromise, where the seam is a little tilted to the side but idk if it’s worth it.
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Yeah I also feel like it’s not consistent for drift. The highest I got was 2.5. I also got 3.5 but that was for a flipper.
I will try experimenting with seam as you mentioned.
 
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