Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)

[Fleetwood]

Anyone out there - especially those that read books and have some knowledge of wrist-spinnings developmental history. What's the earliest use of the term "Slider" that you're aware of and who was it used by and how did they claim it was executed. On the internet which is obviously full or claims not backed up by any research of any substance or direct connections with 1st class bowlers own practice, there seems to be at least 3 types which random people are describing which have never appeared in any of the books written on the subject. (1). A seam ball where you hold it like a leg break grip, but you don't flick the wrist you just roll it off the 2 'Up' fingers with a bit of back-spin. (2) Same 2 up 2 down wrist spin grip, again no snap/flick of the wrist and this time you don't even drag the fingers down to create back-spin you just 'Palm' it out of the front of the hand a bit like knuckle ball. (3) Which I've only ever seen Jeetan Patel execute and he's finger spinner. He's so precise it seems with his release that he's able to purposefully angle the ball with off-spin that the ball lands on the smooth side and creates the chance that it doesn't spin - it just skids on.

Good question - and I don't have a good answer tbh. I've had a quick look through my various books which has just confirmed that it's not used in any of them *, and I'm pretty sure I first saw it on the internet; the first time I'm sure I heard it was regarding the famous slider-that-wasn't that Warnie bowled to Ian Bell at Lord's in 05.

I'm not a fan of the term really, because it describes what the ball has done, rather than what the bowler has done to produce it.

1). A seam ball where you hold it like a leg break grip, but you don't flick the wrist you just roll it off the 2 'Up' fingers with a bit of back-spin. - I've definitely seen Rashid and I think Yasir Shah bowl a ball like this, but not as a routine variation, just an occasional ploy

(2) Same 2 up 2 down wrist spin grip, again no snap/flick of the wrist and this time you don't even drag the fingers down to create back-spin you just 'Palm' it out of the front of the hand a bit like knuckle ball. This would be the famed "Zooter" - if Warne ever bowled this, I didn't see it, and I've never seen anyone else do it either

(3) Which I've only ever seen Jeetan Patel execute and he's finger spinner. He's so precise it seems with his release that he's able to purposefully angle the ball with off-spin that the ball lands on the smooth side and creates the chance that it doesn't spin - it just skids on. Patel was superb at this, I've seen Swann (called it a flying-saucer ball) , Axar Patel and Ashwin all bowl this - the offies primarily against lefthanders, but Axar bowls it all the time.

I have also heard it used to describe:

• A square legspinner that just doesn't grip, and continues in with the drift
• Orthodox backspinner, as described by Peter Philpott - normal legspin grip but wrist turned round even further than the big legspinner, so the two two fingers come down the back of the ball, imparting legspin and backspin - like the two Warne delvieries in this video: (this vid gets off to a good start but then features topspinners from Afridi & Hogg, shame.
• An actual flipper spun between fingers and thumb
• An arm ball from a fingerspinner, seam up and intended to swing

It seems to be applied to any ball that looks like it's going to turn but doesn't - to be fair, I think it's most often used to describe delivery 1 , which is fine, but I'd still describe as a backspinner to avoid confusion. The last two especially get on my nerves, because these are specific deliveries with recognised names , but some professional commentators can't be bothered to learn about spin - I'm obviously entering grumpy old man territory now.

Warne - No Spin
Wilkins - The Bowler's Art
Philpott - Art of Wristspin
Rajan - Twirly Men
Marriott - The Complete Leg-Break Bowler
Haigh - On Warne

 

[SLA]

the term itself, I'm pretty sure was invented by warne in 2005. It's certainly not mentioned in any book I've read from before that date

The ball he was describing, which is often confused by commentators but was actually analysed in slo mo pretty clearly at the time, is essentially a scrambled seam delivery with a mixture of sidespin and backspin. Due to his shoulder problems, he bowled it as his main variation from 2005 onwards.

Although warne invented the term, he didn't invent the delivery specifically, only the way it was used as a clever foil to a leg break as part of a leg spinners arsenal. A scrambled seam delivery with a mixture of sidespin and backspin is basically just a cutter, it's as old as overarm bowling itself

Wikipedia says it comes from doug ring. Ive no idea about that.

I bowl it as a finger spinner. It drifts and floats, but doesn't really dip, turn or bounce. I call it a slider too

 

[Fleetwood]

the term itself, I'm pretty sure was invented by warne in 2005. It's certainly not mentioned in any book I've read from before that date

The ball he was describing, which is often confused by commentators but was actually analysed in slo mo pretty clearly at the time, is essentially a scrambled seam delivery with a mixture of sidespin and backspin. Due to his shoulder problems, he bowled it as his main variation from 2005 onwards.

Although warne invented the term, he didn't invent the delivery specifically, only the way it was used as a clever foil to a leg break as part of a leg spinners arsenal. A scrambled seam delivery with a mixture of sidespin and backspin is basically just a cutter, it's as old as overarm bowling itself

Wikipedia says it comes from doug ring. Ive no idea about that.

I bowl it as a finger spinner. It drifts and floats, but doesn't really dip, turn or bounce. I call it a slider too

A Warne coinage would make sense. How are you bowling your fingerspin equivalent - is it an undercut ball, or are you dragging down the back of it? Welcome back to this forum BTW, I've enjoyed your previous posts.

 

[SLA]

A Warne coinage would make sense. How are you bowling your fingerspin equivalent - is it an undercut ball, or are you dragging down the back of it? Welcome back to this forum BTW, I've enjoyed your previous posts.

I play around with both - but the one I think of as my "slider" is the one that I grip and bowl like a regular offbreak but just let it slide out of the front of my hand a little bit at the point of release (so my fingers run more down the back of the ball than perfectly round the side), so there is a bit of sidespin, but not as much as you'd want for a correctly bowled off break.


TBH most newbie off-spinners inadvertently bowl sliders, you have to coach them especially to try to get their fingers more over the top of the ball through release, so that the seam comes out nicely presented rather than scrambled.

 

[doc8176]

I play around with both - but the one I think of as my "slider" is the one that I grip and bowl like a regular offbreak but just let it slide out of the front of my hand a little bit at the point of release (so my fingers run more down the back of the ball than perfectly round the side), so there is a bit of sidespin, but not as much as you'd want for a correctly bowled off break.


TBH most newbie off-spinners inadvertently bowl sliders, you have to coach them especially to try to get their fingers more over the top of the ball through release, so that the seam comes out nicely presented rather than scrambled.

The hardest part of off spin is getting over the top of the ball and being able to do so at a decent pace.

I think the undercutter (side spin) and arm ball (back spin) achieve different things.

The undercutter drifts a little and then maybe skids off the leather of the ball.

The arm ball ideal swings (same direction as your drift) but I find it doesnt skid quite as much as an undercutter because it hits the seam.