Leg Spin Video Analysis

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Re: Leg Spin Video Analysis

someblokecalleddave;396799 said:
Get Rory to post more and start contributing, I think some of us have been round the block a few times and there's a need for some frsh blood.
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I have posted onto a few other threads now and will look to get on to some of the interesting articles in my breaks from exam revision and when i'm not actually playing!
 
Re: Leg Spin Video Analysis

rorymathews;396837 said:
I have posted onto a few other threads now and will look to get on to some of the interesting articles in my breaks from exam revision and when i'm not actually playing!
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Don't let us stop you from playing/training. The best thing about those 5/14 figures is you stuck your hand up early on in the piece and people will notice.

The old long hop got one for you. That's a ball we dont discuss much here and then only in the negative.

Like in any art/craft you need to know the laws before you can break them and one golden rule for legspinners is no short balls because any mug will clobber you. But that odd short ball keeps getting wickets. It's better if it was planned but i bet you celebrated that wicket as much or possibly more than the other 4.
 
Re: Leg Spin Video Analysis

macca;396913 said:
Don't let us stop you from playing/training. The best thing about those 5/14 figures is you stuck your hand up early on in the piece and people will notice.

The old long hop got one for you. That's a ball we dont discuss much here and then only in the negative.

Like in any art/craft you need to know the laws before you can break them and one golden rule for legspinners is no short balls because any mug will clobber you. But that odd short ball keeps getting wickets. It's better if it was planned but i bet you celebrated that wicket as much or possibly more than the other 4.
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It is never as satisfying taking the long hop wicket so celebrations weren't as grand! I for well know the effects of bowling too short from the step up from colts where good batsmen will stylishly hit it for 4 to adults where bad batsmen just clobber it for 6!
 
Re: Leg Spin Video Analysis

you should celebrate the "lucky" wickets harder. batsmen are always angry when they lose their wicket, even more so when it was a fairly weak one that they know shouldnt have beaten them. celebrating hard just winds them up even more. and with cricket being a batsmans game, we have to take every opportunity we can get as bowlers to let the batsmen know their true place.

also, the occasional short one, the occasional full toss, the hard spun ball that doesnt turn, etc. in the eyes of a perfectionist bowler those are all poor deliveries. they didnt land or do what was intended of them when they left the hand. but they are natural variations. if every ball did the same thing then youd have a real hard time tricking the batsmen.

theres no such thing as a bad delivery if it takes a wicket. it really angers me when commentators get on Stuart Broads back for England. he has spells where he just bowls short, and the commentators (who are always very quick to criticise, but i dont see them offering their "expertise" for coaching/managing/selecting/etc, they are too busy cashing their Sky commentators cheques) bang on for 20+ mins about how he should be bowling at the stumps, blah, blah. then he takes a couple of quick wickets with the short ball. the same applies to bowlers plugging away outside off stump instead of bowling at the stumps. if it gets you a wicket then convetional ideas of the "perfect" delivery go out the window. celebrate whatever you can get!!
 
Re: Leg Spin Video Analysis

I'm still not getting the rotation right - have a look 10 minutes of continuous Leg Breaks......
YouTube - Leg break bowling
I'm not on form at the minute so it's a bit ropey, not a lot of turn and few stray down the legside. I was intending on getting them on the target but as soon as the 1st ball went down I scrapped that idea.
 
Re: Leg Spin Video Analysis

someblokecalleddave;397160 said:
I'm still not getting the rotation right - have a look 10 minutes of continuous Leg Breaks......
YouTube - Leg break bowling
I'm not on form at the minute so it's a bit ropey, not a lot of turn and few stray down the legside. I was intending on getting them on the target but as soon as the 1st ball went down I scrapped that idea.
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Dave, youre probably going to reject this idea straight away, but have you ever tried changing your action so that you dont skip into your delivery stride? watching your action, i reckon it hurts it! i know the general concensus is never to change your natural action, but so much energy is derived from the body changing its shape through the action. and in your case, your skip puts you VERY side-on, and then you dance into the delivery stride so there is minimal weight transfer. your front foot doesnt have to plant itself, and then you have to force the follow through artificially with your shoulders, there is less rotation required at the hips and shoulders because they are already side-on before you get to the delivery stride. im by no means an expert, but it might be worth a try? it couldnt definitely be an issue behind your struggle with the big leg break, and to completely overcome googly syndrome.

if you had a conventional approach stride into the delivery stride, i reckon youd get slightly less side on, plant your foot more in front of you (with more weight on it), and have a much stronger rotation. without the over rotation as well possibly because i reckon this might be a compensation technique anyway.

the delivery at 9:24 was easily the best looking action of the lot. you kept your arm slightly lower, transferred more weight, and followed through harder. i think that perhaps whoever mentioned about the high arm might be right. round arm would definitely discourage the wrong'un, and judging by the delivery i mention on the video rounder-arm definitely looked best!!
 
Re: Leg Spin Video Analysis

I've been trying today with the rotation thing and it seems to impede my bowling, when I go back to my natural action with the over-rotation I get more turn and better accuracy. With the skip, the only way I can get round it seems to be a one step and into the bowling action or a proper bound. The only thing is way back in the midst of time I mangled my left ankle skateboarding and it's always been weak and I just feel like I'm going to totally ruin my ankle if I do a conventional bound into the bowling action.
 
Re: Leg Spin Video Analysis

with regards the rotation, just stick at it. i felt the same way a month or so ago, i tried to adapt my action and it didnt work. so i reverted back to my old method and that worked instantly.

but ultimately im finding improvements with the new action now, i just had to stick at it and adapt. for example, i couldnt simply alter my leading foot placement, i had to completely alter the rotation, weight transfer, timing of release, etc. it took some serious head scratching, and i was literally talking myself through it (out loud, anyone that walked past probably thought i was mental) for 2 hours, analysing every aspect of my action.

you may never be able to convince your body to ditch the skip step even if you try, and if youve got a bad ankle then its potentially another injury you could flare up. but i reckon its worth experimentation just to see what happens.
 
Re: Leg Spin Video Analysis

What I'll probably do is persevere with the Beau Casson 1 step and explode through the crease approach which is the way that I'm working with 'The Biggun' and see how that works with my normal deliveries, if it seems to work, I'll try and step it up to 2 steps and so on? I've got my 1st match Sunday so that'll be the litmus test as to see how well I'm bowling. We're fielding 5 spinners... 2 x Wrist Spinners, 1 x Left Arm orthodox and 2 right arm finger spinners. One of them is the 14 year old kid that cleans teams out for about 15 runs, I think last year he took 6 wickets for 12 off 6 overs at the start of the season. So this should be interesting.
 
Re: Leg Spin Video Analysis

someblokecalleddave;397168 said:
I've been trying today with the rotation thing and it seems to impede my bowling, when I go back to my natural action with the over-rotation I get more turn and better accuracy. With the skip, the only way I can get round it seems to be a one step and into the bowling action or a proper bound. The only thing is way back in the midst of time I mangled my left ankle skateboarding and it's always been weak and I just feel like I'm going to totally ruin my ankle if I do a conventional bound into the bowling action.
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I have just watched the video for the first few minutes and there are a few things that i have picked up on. I think that the rotation on that video is good, however i think that you are trying too hard to get it due to a lack of momentum into the action. Can i suggest walking into the start of your run up to gain a bit more momentum and put less pressure on the actual delivery and maybe reduce the skip into the delivery.
 
Re: Leg Spin Video Analysis

I don't think the skip is ever going to go for a start, as I said I'm experimenting with some of the ideas that Beau Casson and David Freedman suggest and see how that pans out. I didn't feel at all comfortable with any of the bowling today it was all pretty shoddy and experimental. There's another 2 clips being up-loaded over the next 24 hours, but they're not a lot different other than the fact that they include wrong uns. Not sure why I was so crap today, maybe bio-rythmns, maybe because the bowlers end is a bit lumpy and I'm wary of twisting my ankle or I'm just not in form at the minute. I'm playing Sunday, so it'll be interesting to see how I get on.

Other than I'll go back to a slightly longer walk in and see how that works, but the skip will still be there. The weird thing is if your watch the videos in slo-mo the skip doesn't look too bad it kind of looks like Daniel Vettori's bowling. I'm going to see if I can see anything in what he does that is useful on youtube.

Another one has been uploaded now with some Wrong Uns, at the minute it's not quite viewable though?
 
Re: Leg Spin Video Analysis

I don't think it is the skip that is the problem. Maybe it will be just getting into a rhythm which is so much more easy on a proper square rather than where you were practising.
 
Re: Leg Spin Video Analysis

rorymathews;397420 said:
I don't think it is the skip that is the problem. Maybe it will be just getting into a rhythm which is so much more easy on a proper square rather than where you were practising.
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I had a game today and produced the worst bowling I've ever come up with - worse than my first ever matches when I used to bowl shed loads of wides. I think I bowled 2 wides today down the off-side. It might be that I'm trying to change all the things that I did last year which served me so well. The reason I'm changing these is because they're suspected as being the reason I've got knackered calf muscles and that if for instance I can correct the over-rotation I might become more accurate? It's all a bit of a dilemma at the minute I'm a bit shell-shocked at how bad I was!
 
Re: Leg Spin Video Analysis

someblokecalleddave;397465 said:
I had a game today and produced the worst bowling I've ever come up with - worse than my first ever matches when I used to bowl shed loads of wides. I think I bowled 2 wides today down the off-side. It might be that I'm trying to change all the things that I did last year which served me so well. The reason I'm changing these is because they're suspected as being the reason I've got knackered calf muscles and that if for instance I can correct the over-rotation I might become more accurate? It's all a bit of a dilemma at the minute I'm a bit shell-shocked at how bad I was!
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youve just got to stick at it. i was a little lucky in that i found my problems earlier enough in pre season that i havent had to bowl in any matches, and now that matches have begun i feel like im carrying enough form to do a good job. we will see though.

that still meant i was at indoor nets though with massive problems, getting tonked all over the place by average batsmen, and really struggling to bowl back to back deliveries without one being a massive wide, or a drag down. it sucks, it kills your confidence and demotivates you, but you just have to suck it up and keep going.

the worse thing you can do is revert back to where you were, because that isnt progress. in order to improve youve got to identify the specific areas causing your problems and work on them. its frustrating to think that it might mean you play a whole season of fairly weak cricket in order to improve your long term game, but sometimes thats just how it is. i reckon once you get your adapted action to click youll probably find improvements in a matter of weeks, and get back to your best (or even better).

get yourself that slow motion camcorder as soon as you can!! :D
 
Re: Leg Spin Video Analysis

run up looks good. do you struggle to get dip or drift on the ball? i think that you arm needs to bowl the ball rather then just flick out the ball. try to follow through until your opposite hip. this may then give you extra pace on the ball which would mean you being able to not over compensate and drop the head or shoulder.
 
Re: Leg Spin Video Analysis

rorymathews;397578 said:
run up looks good. do you struggle to get dip or drift on the ball? i think that you arm needs to bowl the ball rather then just flick out the ball. try to follow through until your opposite hip. this may then give you extra pace on the ball which would mean you being able to not over compensate and drop the head or shoulder.
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I have no idea about drift. I *think* I'm getting there but my follow through is so pronounced and takes me in a direction which makes it almost impossible for me to judge from my end. I've tried bowling only a few top-spinners and the dip seemed ok to me...

I have a lot of issues with my shoulder (in terms of it being fragile and inflexible) and it seems that while I'm bowling with a more vertical arm now relative to the ground, relative to my shoulder it's the same as it ever was. I found this strange when I watched the video as I'd been trying to get my arm up a lot and genuinely thought I was now going over my shoulder rather than round it.

Compare my arm a few months ago...
roundarm.jpg


To how it is now:
bowling.jpg


I'm not sure how much I'm going to be able to do about this. I've always bowled with my arm going round my shoulder and it seems like it's just how my shoulder works
 
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