Australian Cricket Team Discussions

[distributer of pain]

Re: Australian Cricket Team Discussions

could turn out something like I Pathan, has some logic to the thought. but probably wont happen. He will get undone by a fast swinging ball.

yeah it would take some planning and a lot of practice in the nets, but i think most national training sessions use a box of new rocks ( i may be wrong) so he wouldnt be totally surprised by a swinging ball, i know theres a huge difference in the nets compared to the middle though. asi said, it"ll never happen, id just like to see it trialled thats all. nothing ventured nothing gained and all that.

 

[distributer of pain]

Re: Australian Cricket Team Discussions

Also id keep the team exactly as it was as if mitch was batting at 9, just a slight change in the order. lol

 

[Ljp86]

Re: Australian Cricket Team Discussions

could turn out something like I Pathan, has some logic to the thought. but probably wont happen. He will get undone by a fast swinging ball.

Trying to use Pathan as a top order player ruined his game in my opinion. Ever since he was used that way, his bowling dropped of and his batting didn't really improve either despite going up the order. He's at a point now where his batting and bowling isn't good enough for the Indian side.

 

[distributer of pain]

Re: Australian Cricket Team Discussions

Trying to use Pathan as a top order player ruined his game in my opinion. Ever since he was used that way, his bowling dropped of and his batting didn't really improve either despite going up the order. He's at a point now where his batting and bowling isn't good enough for the Indian side.

pathan has gone off in the past for long periods of time for no apparant reason though.

 

[hattrick]

Re: Australian Cricket Team Discussions

The Idea of Mitch opening has the right idea but I am honest when I say I have yet to find a pinch hitter who works. Play attacking cricket shots not slogging is what is needed. Also one would not want to add more work load for Johnson. I was quite shocked to hear a South African commentator (who shall remain nameless) saying that Johnson has a slinging action. Comparing him to Fidel Edwards and Malinga .. just shows the incompetence of this commentator. He has really improved been one of the best players against South Africa in all forms.. yes he went for plenty in the ODI's.

I must admit that I would pick James Hopes over Shane Watson.. one he is more consistent in scoring and is a hard worker.. Watson seems to be a bit of an injury cloud and I am not convinced that HE will play a season without getting injured..

Batting punter at 5 is a waste of his talent.. he still is good enough to do it all...

 

[distributer of pain]

Re: Australian Cricket Team Discussions

i hear you about ponting, he is our best batsman, but for the teams sake id like to see him move to 5, as in i mean he isnt going to be around for much longer 2/3 years tops, and id rather find out if pups up to the challenge while punters still around, if punter stays at 3 and retires there then we have to find a new no3 instantly, which may not be as easy as it sounds. and with an allrounder at 6, haddin at 7, and mitch 8, theres still plenty of time for ponting to carve an innings at 5, imagine the other teams morale if they get us 3/200 and ponting walks out. lol, i think of it like this, if punter does stay at no3 and retires there then clarke will probably have to (1) take the captaincy, and (2) move from 5 o 3, its a pretty big ask, why not make the transition a little easier ? im not saying now but certainly within 12mths.

 

[Boris]

Re: Australian Cricket Team Discussions

ponting has moved aside in a few games if you remember back a couple of seasons. he batted at four for a whole triangle ODI series and let clarke in the no.3 spot for a trial. he didnt do too badly, but then i wouldnt have him in there. no.3 is for the best batsman in the side, which in australia's sake is the best batsman in the country, if not the world. clarke IMO is not that person.

mitch opening isnt too bad an idea, he is a really fit person as it is, so he should be able to bowl reasonably well. im not sure what he'd be like against the new ball and that, so it would be an idea to do so against a team that australia know the can beat (like england hehe) so if he fails a few times there is not much lost. thats what happened with gilly, he wasnt really recognised as that much of a batsman, but after he made a few scores in the no.6 position in ODIs s.waugh suggested that he do so, and he succeeded. mitch bats a lot like gilly did. and in regards to hattrick's comment on slogging, there is nothing wrong with a slogger. its a hacker that is the problem. if when they go for a six or smashing a four and they swing really hard, take their eyes of the ball and play all cross batted shots, that is the problem. mitch is like gilly and symonds, a slogger of sorts. he doesnt swing hard or takes his eye of the ball and cross bats everything, he just extends a normal straight bat shot and lofts it in the air. haddin is like that too, able to time it well enough to just add loft and it goes for six. sloggers do tend to get out slogging more often then not, but it shouldnt be a frowned upon thing. you probably dont mean it that way hattrick, but i thought i would express my opinion.

obviously for mitch to work as an opener he has to be willing, which i am not sure that he will be. maybe a substitute slogger, like they did with symonds when he first came in the side. he batted last in the recognised batsmen, then when heavy hitting was required they shifted him up the order after a fall of a wicket and he went in a slogged his way through a few overs. i dont think that would work either as there are more capable sloggers around, and he is not that forceful type slogger, the more graceful type. he needs to really show that he can bat as soon as he gets some overs to bat with. i hope australia's batting fails just so mitch has a chance. hahaha

 

[distributer of pain]

Re: Australian Cricket Team Discussions

i dont think mitch is a slogger, he does hit off lengh when his eyes in but he seems to pick the right balls, he has power from point to square leg with his main power being mid off to mid wicket, he really impresses me as a batsman but like i said earlier he needs a few overs and he needs bowlers trying get him out instead of trying to restrict him with yorkers, he"s wasted at 9 i reckon.

 

[A.B De Villiers]

Re: Australian Cricket Team Discussions

Trying to use Pathan as a top order player ruined his game in my opinion. Ever since he was used that way, his bowling dropped of and his batting didn't really improve either despite going up the order. He's at a point now where his batting and bowling isn't good enough for the Indian side.

I agree with you here. Pathan was ruined, not sure what his priority was and both slipped away. although his bowling couldnt slip away much, bowling pies at 125Kmh.
Mitch i feel has too much on his plate. let the boy just bowl quickly and smash a few around at the end. Im sure we can find blokes who can bat at the top. push pup back to 4, he doesnt look comfortable any more opening. On Punter, he's our best bat by far and needs to be at 3.

 

[distributer of pain]

Re: Australian Cricket Team Discussions

I agree with you here. Pathan was ruined, not sure what his priority was and both slipped away. although his bowling couldnt slip away much, bowling pies at 125Kmh.
Mitch i feel has too much on his plate. let the boy just bowl quickly and smash a few around at the end. Im sure we can find blokes who can bat at the top. push pup back to 4, he doesnt look comfortable any more opening. On Punter, he's our best bat by far and needs to be at 3.

pathans form is like a yoyo, he"s down for long periods of time then he"s a world beater for 6 months then he goes down again, this has been happening all of his career not just sinse he was moved to opener. to me mitch seams to thrive on work, he doesnt raise a sweat bowling 2, 5 over spells, ODIs and tests are pretty well spaced now, as i said it"ll never happen, just thinking out loud thats all.

 

[hattrick]

Re: Australian Cricket Team Discussions

i dont think mitch is a slogger, he does hit off lengh when his eyes in but he seems to pick the right balls, he has power from point to square leg with his main power being mid off to mid wicket, he really impresses me as a batsman but like i said earlier he needs a few overs and he needs bowlers trying get him out instead of trying to restrict him with yorkers, he"s wasted at 9 i reckon.

I agree with you on that .. I never thought of him in that light... And yes he is wasted at 9.. but do you unsettle him when he has been so successful.???

 

[distributer of pain]

Re: Australian Cricket Team Discussions

I agree with you on that .. I never thought of him in that light... And yes he is wasted at 9.. but do you unsettle him when he has been so successful.???

i dont think he"s a great ODI bowler and doubt he ever will be, he"s is good though, as for test bowling i think he"s verging on very good, if he can ever get the ball to consistantly swing into the right handers then he"ll be great, i just think all players at any level should try to get the most out of their abilitys, we arnt the powerhouse we used to be and truth be told this is probably the worst team we"ve had for 10 years IMO in both forms of the game, we"re still the best though but only just, our test team doesnt have a spinner, we have no 1st slipper, pontings the only batsman who could stake a claim in a world 11, and he"s on the wrong side of 30, we dont have a proven opening partnership in either forms of the game, i think we need explore every avenue to keep our edge and if one of those includes a simple trial putting mitch in as an opener in limited overs games then so be it, he"s young keen and super fit so why not ?? nothing to lose in my opinion. as boris said, a simalar move made gilly one of the best of all time, i know he aint gilly though. gee, id try the water boy if worse came to worse lol.

 

[distributer of pain]

Re: Australian Cricket Team Discussions

just continuing on my point about the world 11, it wernt that long ago when we had the majority in the world 11, ponting, gilchrist, mcgrath, warne, hayden, gillespie, and gilespie was considered better than mcgrath for a couple of years, as you can see the pickings are pretty slim now in comparison. i think ponting and a fit s.clark would make it in now, i think mitch would miss out.

 

[distributer of pain]

Re: Australian Cricket Team Discussions

just continuing on my point about the world 11, it wernt that long ago when we had the majority in the world 11, ponting, gilchrist, mcgrath, warne, hayden, gillespie, and gilespie was considered better than mcgrath for a couple of years, and you could maybe add lee at one stage, as you can see the pickings are pretty slim now in comparison. i think ponting and a fit s. clark (at his best) would make it in now, i think mitch would miss out (on bowling ability alone) but is probably the inform allrounder in test cricket and that may get him through, and he bats at 9 in ODIs, strange.

 

[Ljp86]

Re: Australian Cricket Team Discussions

pathan has gone off in the past for long periods of time for no apparant reason though.

pathans form is like a yoyo, he"s down for long periods of time then he"s a world beater for 6 months then he goes down again, this has been happening all of his career not just sinse he was moved to opener. to me mitch seams to thrive on work, he doesnt raise a sweat bowling 2, 5 over spells, ODIs and tests are pretty well spaced now, as i said it"ll never happen, just thinking out loud thats all.

Pathan has been rubbish for quite some time now. He can only seem to play Twenty20 games for India at the moment where you don't necessarily have to be a star player at one disciple to get a game. It's gotten to the point where Yusuf Pathan, Irfan's half-brother, who has long been in his shadow, is now the preferred player in the side.

Ever since the top order experiment was tried, Pathan has steadily declined and is now well down the pecking order in terms of bowling because he just isn't good enough with the ball anymore.

Johnson should be focusing on bowling and bowling alone. He doesn't need to spend significant time batting because his job is to bowl overs and take wickets, not score runs. I'm happy for Mitch to spend some time working on his batting, all bowlers should be but that doesn't mean he has to become an all-rounder. Mitch's batting will never be as good as his bowling, ever, simply because he has been a bowler for the majority of his career. Any runs that Mitch scores are a bonus but there is no need to develop him as a super all-rounder, we have batters in the side to make runs. Shane Warne was more than handy with the bat and there was no need to develop his batting skills so we don't need to do the same with Mitch.

 

[distributer of pain]

Re: Australian Cricket Team Discussions

some people lack vision. i dont think you can compare mitch with pathan, also i wouldnt worry about trying to make mitch an allrounder, he"s dont that all by himself, now he needs to be tapped, and i wouldnt rate warne as highly as mitch with the bat, warne may of had a tad more natural talant but he didnt respect his wicket and i think mitch would work a lot more on batting than warne used too, and remember when warne was in the team we didnt need any help with the bat, the same cant be said now, and i am only talking about limited overs games, id still leave him at 8 in tests, i do hear what your saying how one disipline can affect the other in some players, maybe even most players, in the AFL years ago richmond had the best small forward going around (nick daffy) and they decided to make him a midfeilder, anyway 18mths later he wasnt even good enough at 2nds level even in his old position, but there has been a lot of positive storys from all sporting codes when giving players extra responsibilty, id like to find out.

 

[Boris]

Re: Australian Cricket Team Discussions

some people lack vision. i dont think you can compare mitch with pathan, also i wouldnt worry about trying to make mitch an allrounder, he"s dont that all by himself, now he needs to be tapped, and i wouldnt rate warne as highly as mitch with the bat, warne may of had a tad more natural talant but he didnt respect his wicket and i think mitch would work a lot more on batting than warne used too, and remember when warne was in the team we didnt need any help with the bat, the same cant be said now, and i am only talking about limited overs games, id still leave him at 8 in tests, i do hear what your saying how one disipline can affect the other in some players, maybe even most players, in the AFL years ago richmond had the best small forward going around (nick daffy) and they decided to make him a midfeilder, anyway 18mths later he wasnt even good enough at 2nds level even in his old position, but there has been a lot of positive storys from all sporting codes when giving players extra responsibilty, id like to find out.

as long as australia are playing a team that they are pretty sure that they can beat if the opening partnership fails, then i see it as a nothing to lose, plenty to gain situation. johnson will either prove his worth or not, show that he can still bowl after a long innings with the bat, or bat after 10 overs of bowling. otherwise he may have to work at getting his eye in quicker if he is to prove anything with the bat. if it could work i think it would be great, because then an extra batsman could be added in the team, meaning more runs are possible. its up to mitch, though, nobody wants him to start going downhill with his bowling simply because somebody wants him to open.

 

[distributer of pain]

Re: Australian Cricket Team Discussions

i wouldnt change the line up at all, just move mitch to opener and everyone else goes up a spot, would anyone here think it would be a stupid move if we were chasing 340+ in the world cup final ? i know we tried a simaler thing with warne in that (rigged pitch) final against sri lanker, i think he came in at 4. and failed, but the don would"ve failed on that track.

 

[A.B De Villiers]

Re: Australian Cricket Team Discussions

Has the state system not produced better bats then Mitch? lets get him to be the best bowler in the world first and then worry about pushing him up the order.

 

[distributer of pain]

Re: Australian Cricket Team Discussions

Has the state system not produced better bats then Mitch? lets get him to be the best bowler in the world first and then worry about pushing him up the order.

look our stocks are low, mitch wouldnt make our team of the decade as a bowler in opinion, and chances are he"s not going to get any better then he is now, IMO he"s in his prime, and as ive said and everyone knows if he cant consistantly come back into right handers then this about it for him, which is still servicable but not great, so IMO he will never be the best in the bussiness at bowling (i hope im wrong), would you play mitch now as a bowler with mcgrath, gillespie, clark to choose from ?. The guys as fit as an AFL footballer and he isnt as fragile as most of you seam to think, if it did start affecting his bowling then abort the experment, it isnt going to ruin him, it may even give him some confidence, anyone think of that ??.