Subbies 2011/12

[weapons05/06]

Very witty as always S&W. Harwood going to be at McPherson Park next season? Have heard whispers that not everyone was happy with his antics during the finals series and that he may be heading up to play in Ballarat. Will need to find some cover for him if he leaves...

beat me to the punch......

will NOT be playing at maccy park next year......missed the 1/4 final didnt front on match day = head honcho's not happy.....

congratulations ''snake in the grass'' on the win.....fair way to bow out.....all the best

 

[turbo]

Kew to lose a few players.

 

[Super Saint]

Now the scramble starts. Saints looking for a couple, opening bowler definately on the cards!

 

[channels]

Congratulations to the Oaks on what has been an amazing season, where they captured all three of the trophies up for grabs. An amazing feat that hasn't been done since last season.

The smart recruiting of McGuiness(700 runs @47) really stiffened a batting order that was perceived as brittle in big games. Now to be really considered the "Kings of Subbies," (parleese) they need to take on the champs out West, who completed (for them) a solid season with their third flag on the trot and 4th from five consecutive grand final appearances.

Agree here S&W. While Oakleigh have taken out all titles (great effort), to be called Kings of the Subbies, they would have had to of taken down Melton, in what would have been a great Championship Final. A Champ final win for either team would have eventuated with the bragging rights of 'Kings of the Subbies'. Considering Melton have 4 from the last 5 GF's, I would lean towards them as Kings of the Subbies.

 

[westland]

Day 2 at Maccy Park saw Harwood and Jones the only two to bowl fr the northern until tea with James Wheelahan, Duncan Harrison and Nathan Allen operating into the wind. Is there a better attack in the subbies? Constant pressure and a measure of hostility, but resisted for a long time by Shane Dean. However, by tea, M Dean, Wolf and O'Brien all gone and run-rate had swelled to over 4 runs per over. A mopping up exercise after tea with Jones dominant. Love to have seen Melton take on Oakleigh, Does any other comp conduct their finals in the manner the subbies do? This business of maximum club participation can be overdone I think.

No response yet to the final two sentences of the above,(p47), nor to channels p48 post re 'King of the Subbies'. Any comments?

 

[B&G OCC]

There are obvious pros and cons to the final 6 system.

Pros:
- More teams are alive in the season for longer, more live rubbers in the closing stages of the season
- A number of upsets still occur from the lower reaches of the 6 to top teams
- More Subbies cricket is played at more grounds for more of the year

Cons:
- Teams in the lower reaches of the 6 can stack their sides with players from higher XI's if qualified
- Some games between lower 6 and top are blow outs
- Championship Final is sacrificed

Championship Final - was voted out 25-3 by delegates in favour of the Final 6. My personal opinion is that it is a great concept, but falls down by virtue of the fact you play the entire season to win your group made up of 14 teams for that season. The result and elation of winning a flag can be diminished if you lose what is essentially an exhibition match. That being said, if the vote wanted it back I would have no issue accpeting this.

I love the fact that the Subbies competition is unique in that four groups of 7 rotate through seaons each three years. I feel this is more vital to the ongoing helath and strength of the competition rather than one winner.

When you consider a final 6 it is still significantly less than 50% of participants, and therefore not excessive. I don't love the current formulation of matches, but the only finals system I think really rewards the position you finish is the old VFL final 5, which is virtually impossible to institute into a cricket competition.

The other issue with finals is the occasional but unfortunate situation whereby a club finishing higher on the ladder can play a 'home' final at the opposition ground due to higher XI's utilising the preferred option. Perhaps a nuetral ground is required in this situation, if in the same council, would be relatively easy to arrange.


As for the 'King of Subbies' moniker, I tend not to get involved in fishing expeditions on here, although I don't have any issue with them. For close watchers it is a line in the OCC theme song, and obviously something the club aspires to, much like in the AFL with Geelong claiming to the 'greatest team of all', or the Kanags and Dons 'striving to win the premiership every year'.
It's also a bit rich that people could find offence or merriment at what is written on what are essentially supporter websites. Of course they will be biased and more often than not exaggerate events or wax lyrical about positives. This is a good thing as it builds club culture and sense of team and community.
For what it's worth, Oakleigh are continually striving to achieve the lofty heights of benchmark clubs like Caulfield and especially recently the unparalleled exploits of Melton. These are great clubs, made great by the people, hard work, future planning, commitment and desire to be the best they can - this is where their success comes from, not because of money, favouritism or luck.
While we openly marvel at Melton's amazing three-peat (can't recall the last time this was acheived), this is in no way going to take away from celebrating our own achievements in what was statistically the best ever season from a proud club.

 

[Super Saint]

There are obvious pros and cons to the final 6 system.

Pros:
- More teams are alive in the season for longer, more live rubbers in the closing stages of the season
- A number of upsets still occur from the lower reaches of the 6 to top teams
- More Subbies cricket is played at more grounds for more of the year

Cons:
- Teams in the lower reaches of the 6 can stack their sides with players from higher XI's if qualified
- Some games between lower 6 and top are blow outs
- Championship Final is sacrificed

Championship Final - was voted out 25-3 by delegates in favour of the Final 6. My personal opinion is that it is a great concept, but falls down by virtue of the fact you play the entire season to win your group made up of 14 teams for that season. The result and elation of winning a flag can be diminished if you lose what is essentially an exhibition match. That being said, if the vote wanted it back I would have no issue accpeting this.

I love the fact that the Subbies competition is unique in that four groups of 7 rotate through seaons each three years. I feel this is more vital to the ongoing helath and strength of the competition rather than one winner.

When you consider a final 6 it is still significantly less than 50% of participants, and therefore not excessive. I don't love the current formulation of matches, but the only finals system I think really rewards the position you finish is the old VFL final 5, which is virtually impossible to institute into a cricket competition.

The other issue with finals is the occasional but unfortunate situation whereby a club finishing higher on the ladder can play a 'home' final at the opposition ground due to higher XI's utilising the preferred option. Perhaps a nuetral ground is required in this situation, if in the same council, would be relatively easy to arrange.


As for the 'King of Subbies' moniker, I tend not to get involved in fishing expeditions on here, although I don't have any issue with them. For close watchers it is a line in the OCC theme song, and obviously something the club aspires to, much like in the AFL with Geelong claiming to the 'greatest team of all', or the Kanags and Dons 'striving to win the premiership every year'.
It's also a bit rich that people could find offence or merriment at what is written on what are essentially supporter websites. Of course they will be biased and more often than not exaggerate events or wax lyrical about positives. This is a good thing as it builds club culture and sense of team and community.
For what it's worth, Oakleigh are continually striving to achieve the lofty heights of benchmark clubs like Caulfield and especially recently the unparalleled exploits of Melton. These are great clubs, made great by the people, hard work, future planning, commitment and desire to be the best they can - this is where their success comes from, not because of money, favouritism or luck.
While we openly marvel at Melton's amazing three-peat (can't recall the last time this was acheived), this is in no way going to take away from celebrating our own achievements in what was statistically the best ever season from a proud club.

Excellent post!

As for talking up your club, I would suggest this is a given. The day I don't talk up Kingston Saints is the day I'm lowered 6 feet under!

 

[short & wide]

There are obvious pros and cons to the final 6 system.

Pros:
- More teams are alive in the season for longer, more live rubbers in the closing stages of the season
- A number of upsets still occur from the lower reaches of the 6 to top teams
- More Subbies cricket is played at more grounds for more of the year

Cons:
- Teams in the lower reaches of the 6 can stack their sides with players from higher XI's if qualified
- Some games between lower 6 and top are blow outs
- Championship Final is sacrificed

Championship Final - was voted out 25-3 by delegates in favour of the Final 6. My personal opinion is that it is a great concept, but falls down by virtue of the fact you play the entire season to win your group made up of 14 teams for that season. The result and elation of winning a flag can be diminished if you lose what is essentially an exhibition match. That being said, if the vote wanted it back I would have no issue accpeting this.

I love the fact that the Subbies competition is unique in that four groups of 7 rotate through seaons each three years. I feel this is more vital to the ongoing helath and strength of the competition rather than one winner.

When you consider a final 6 it is still significantly less than 50% of participants, and therefore not excessive. I don't love the current formulation of matches, but the only finals system I think really rewards the position you finish is the old VFL final 5, which is virtually impossible to institute into a cricket competition.

The other issue with finals is the occasional but unfortunate situation whereby a club finishing higher on the ladder can play a 'home' final at the opposition ground due to higher XI's utilising the preferred option. Perhaps a nuetral ground is required in this situation, if in the same council, would be relatively easy to arrange.


As for the 'King of Subbies' moniker, I tend not to get involved in fishing expeditions on here, although I don't have any issue with them. For close watchers it is a line in the OCC theme song, and obviously something the club aspires to, much like in the AFL with Geelong claiming to the 'greatest team of all', or the Kanags and Dons 'striving to win the premiership every year'.
It's also a bit rich that people could find offence or merriment at what is written on what are essentially supporter websites. Of course they will be biased and more often than not exaggerate events or wax lyrical about positives. This is a good thing as it builds club culture and sense of team and community.
For what it's worth, Oakleigh are continually striving to achieve the lofty heights of benchmark clubs like Caulfield and especially recently the unparalleled exploits of Melton. These are great clubs, made great by the people, hard work, future planning, commitment and desire to be the best they can - this is where their success comes from, not because of money, favouritism or luck.
While we openly marvel at Melton's amazing three-peat (can't recall the last time this was acheived), this is in no way going to take away from celebrating our own achievements in what was statistically the best ever season from a proud club.

A pretty reasonable response. I too believe we should have a final 6 because there were too many clubs who were "dead" prior to Christmas, and 4 finalists out of 14 competing teams was just plain inequitable.

Just look at the excitement that was displayed by SS, in seeing his club make a Subbies final for the first time, and the fact that they were "pantsed" in no way detracts from their achievements. I note they are already working hard to recruit players to strengthen them. It is the same scenario with Ormond and Endeavour Hills. Given an initial taste of finals through the elimination finals, they will go even harder next season to get back there.

Regarding the Championship game, I am still massively in favour of it, but not at the expense of reverting back to a final 4.

As far as the "Kings of Subbies" moniker is concerned, I am firmly in the "merriment" camp. And whilst you have an "open" web page and invite guests, or a least don't lock them out I will continue to visit your site.
Lets just temper the rhetoric to fit the facts.

Congratulations again on what was a fantastic season for your club

 

[Super Saint]

A pretty reasonable response. I too believe we should have a final 6 because there were too many clubs who were "dead" prior to Christmas, and 4 finalists out of 14 competing teams was just plain inequitable.

Just look at the excitement that was displayed by SS, in seeing his club make a Subbies final for the first time, and the fact that they were "pantsed" in no way detracts from their achievements. I note they are already working hard to recruit players to strengthen them. It is the same scenario with Ormond and Endeavour Hills. Given an initial taste of finals through the elimination finals, they will go even harder next season to get back there.

Regarding the Championship game, I am still massively in favour of it, but not at the expense of reverting back to a final 4.

As far as the "Kings of Subbies" moniker is concerned, I am firmly in the "merriment" camp. And whilst you have an "open" web page and invite guests, or a least don't lock them out I will continue to visit your site.
Lets just temper the rhetoric to fit the facts.

Congratulations again on what was a fantastic seson for your club

We were absolutely stoked to make finals. On Sunday afternoon after our 'pantsing' (probably a little soft) we were in no doubt as to what we need to do to go the whole hog. We now need to get there, which is the tough part!

 

[B&G OCC]

Regarding the Championship game, I am still massively in favour of it, but not at the expense of reverting back to a final 4.

As far as the "Kings of Subbies" moniker is concerned, I am firmly in the "merriment" camp. And whilst you have an "open" web page and invite guests, or a least don't lock them out I will continue to visit your site.
Lets just temper the rhetoric to fit the facts.

I don't necessarily love everything that is written in our match reports, but love the passion and energy of the guys who do take the time to write them. On occasion these have been edited if the facts are wrong, or if there is any derision leveled at an opposition player or club. Nothing is intended to offend, simply proud and excited about their clubs exploits.
There was a correction printed about the crow that the fourth Fewy was the new record, but in our defence, the Subbies website and annual report states Melton have only won four (one of Melton's wins is credited to Malvern).

 

[supersub]

Interesting discussion but how about a change of tune. I'm going to have a crack at the team of the year. Here goes

Allen (c)
McGuinness
Ingram
Pradeep
Dean S
Sheedy
Damiano (wk)
O'Brien
Jones
Patterson
Manser

Could throw a blanket over the 12th spot . Could go with a name big name like Lewis , jaensch , hanson or Travaglia or the (with all due respect) lesser names like Splatt or Barker

Interested to see the "squad" named by subbies

 

[supersub]

Not sure if it is reflective of the respective strengths in each group but I suspect the team will be made up of mainly west & south group players

 

[westland]

A scholarly dissertation on the pros and cons of the present finals system if I may say so, B&G OCC. I have taken a copy.
If I were to add another para, it would be the matter raised by Nancy on p46 -- the absence of 'a reserve weekend if there is a washout on grand final weekend'. I ask SS how he and his club would have felt had the Saints made the GF only to be denied the opportunity to contest it? Further, how would the Saints have felt if it was due to the pitch table not having been fully covered? I have already given my thoughts on this latter issue on p46. I also agree with those members who have said for the 3rds and 4ths competitions to be given the prominance they deserve, covers (maybe 3 pitch) should be mandatory.

 

[B&G OCC]

The strong 20 man Team of the Year squad has been announced, I'll see if I can track down a copy to post here. From this 20 man squad the official twelve man side will be selected. As per previous years, a competition will be held and the winning club announced on Hatch Medal Night.

 

[Super Saint]

A scholarly dissertation on the pros and cons of the present finals system if I may say so, B&G OCC. I have taken a copy.
If I were to add another para, it would be the matter raised by Nancy on p46 -- the absence of 'a reserve weekend if there is a washout on grand final weekend'. I ask SS how he and his club would have felt had the Saints made the GF only to be denied the opportunity to contest it? Further, how would the Saints have felt if it was due to the pitch table not having been fully covered? I have already given my thoughts on this latter issue on p46. I also agree with those members who have said for the 3rds and 4ths competitions to be given the prominance they deserve, covers (maybe 3 pitch) should be mandatory.

If washed out because of continous rain, stiff, but we all know the rules. If washed out because of inapprpriate wicket coverage, dirty!

In my humble opinion, if we are getting grants, this money should be used for ensuring play occurs and full sized covers for main ground, as well as covers for 2nd groung should be mandatory. Do we know how many clubs do not have 3 & 4th XI covers? If my club was one of them, the question I would have is why?

 

[westland]

At the GF I talked to several of the Melton and Werribee folk with whom I played with or against 30 and more years ago and who are now officials at these clubs. Below are some of their comments:
- Neither feel they are ready for the Premier League and are happy to remain in the subbies for the forseeable future.( I appreciate that if such a move is afoot they would not be at liberty to yet disclose it).
Of particular concern to Melton is:
-Their local junior cricket association is not thriving.
-They may soon have a turf pitch competitor if Melton Central's proposal to install a turf pitch at its home ground gets the green light.
-That this will hamper Melton's ability to recruit and hold 3rds and 4ths players in particular, given the remoteness of Maccy Park.
The Werribee people confirmed what I had been told by Footscray Edgewater in that Cricket Victoria's thoughts of establishing a Premier facility at Tarneit to serve the outer west has been put on hold owing to its need to service a million dollar debt arising from installing drop-in pitches etc at Etihad. They also believe the subbies annual grant will be withdrawn and none of the money saved will be specifically redirected to alternative community cricket support/development. If true, disappointing, but not surprising. Perhaps some members may have already asked the subbies executive what CV intends to do with the money saved and on this thread can throw some further light on the issue.

 

[Super Saint]

At the GF I talked to several of the Melton and Werribee folk with whom I played with or against 30 and more years ago and who are now officials at these clubs. Below are some of their comments:
- Neither feel they are ready for the Premier League and are happy to remain in the subbies for the forseeable future.( I appreciate that if such a move is afoot they would not be at liberty to yet disclose it).
Of particular concern to Melton is:
-Their local junior cricket association is not thriving.
-They may soon have a turf pitch competitor if Melton Central's proposal to install a turf pitch at its home ground gets the green light.
-That this will hamper Melton's ability to recruit and hold 3rds and 4ths players in particular, given the remoteness of Maccy Park.
The Werribee people confirmed what I had been told by Footscray Edgewater in that Cricket Victoria's thoughts of establishing a Premier facility at Tarneit to serve the outer west has been put on hold owing to its need to service a million dollar debt arising from installing drop-in pitches etc at Etihad. They also believe the subbies annual grant will be withdrawn and none of the money saved will be specifically redirected to alternative community cricket support/development. If true, disappointing, but not surprising. Perhaps some members may have already asked the subbies executive what CV intends to do with the money saved and on this thread can throw some further light on the issue.

CV continue to 'cry poor'. Obviously the costs of a large and well paid administration and Big Bash commitments is making them nervous.

They seem to make plenty of excuses why it needs to go, including drumming up support from the likes of the VTCA, however, there has been no talk of where it will go.

 

[westland]

If washed out because of continous rain, stiff, but we all know the rules. If washed out because of inapprpriate wicket coverage, dirty!

In my humble opinion, if we are getting grants, this money should be used for ensuring play occurs and full sized covers for main ground, as well as covers for 2nd groung should be mandatory. Do we know how many clubs do not have 3 & 4th XI covers? If my club was one of them, the question I would have is why?

I don't know how many clubs do not cover their no.2 oval's pitch, but can say Yarraville and Sunshine have never done so. In an earlier post Nancy told of another (which she did not name) that also does not, yet every season has an overseas import. Name them and shame them I say!

 

[B&G OCC]

The VSDCA has recognised the following 20 players for their outstanding seasons. The final 12 man Team of the Year announced on Hatch Medal Night will come from the following list of players:

M.ALLEN (Melton), K.BARKER (Brunswick), R.DAMIANO (Caulfield), S.DEAN (Werribee), F.GILL (Kew), L.INGRAM (Plenty Valley),
J.JAENSCH (Plenty Valley), D.JONES (Elsternwick), M.LEWIS (Coburg), K.LOWE (Preston), P.MANSER (Brighton),
B.McGUINNESS (Oakleigh), T.O’BRIEN (Werribee), H.PATERSON (Croydon), M.PERERA (Noble Park), S.PRADEEP (Moorabbin),
C.SHEEDY (Williamstown), A.SHELLIE (Coburg), M.SPLATT (Oakleigh), J.TRAVAGLIA (Oakleigh)

 

[Herbert]

Some big movements already!
Bartlett, Warren, Richardson retired from Caulfield, Pritchard joining Werribee
Harwood moves on from Melton
James Wild signs with Ormond
Apparently Roxbrough Park Braody are trying to poach senior players from other North Clubs.


Got most of this info from the @subbiesspeak Twitter account which has been quite a useful source of info.

The big news being the Caulfield exodus! How will they fair this year with the loss of several key players?