Subbies Thread

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Round the grounds said:
That's exactly what I thought when the info first came out.
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You will recall that on p74 B&GOCC advised Hoppers Crossing have expressed interest in joining the subbies. If they remained in the VTCA they would be hampered in recruiting from Werribee its players who have no interest in playing in Premier due to the restrictions imposed by the VTCA's player points system. No such problem if they are accepted into the subbies. Just a thought bubble guys. Have no idea if their expression of interest has anything to do with the above.
 
Mick allen confirmed to oakleigh as stated on meltons facebook page ! Huge but were does that fit with only "2" players been paid . Will be a very strong comp south/west . Any other player movements ?
 
There is a lot of discussion and innuendo on this forum about what and and what is not allowed in respect to player payments in Subbies. Can someone state current requirements including overseas players. Who is responsible for monitoring or is it an honesty system ?
 
I often reAd this forum and it's about time people started posting so decent rumours/ player movements!

Any news on the North or East groups? Would think a few clubs like Balwyn, Batswater or Kew could be a chance to recruit some ex premier players given their coaches or captains are recently out of premier set ups?
 
Plenty Valleys Lorenzo Ingram signed with Doutta Stars. The exodus of players from the clubs wanting to play Premier will only grow. If you look at PVCC who have been a success in subbies over a period there arent many of their 1st eleven that would go back to Premier. They would have to start from scratch and the nearby clubs like Northcote, Fitzroy, Carlton Essendon etc won't be happy sharing the local Northern Falcons players. Hard work ahead for PVCC etc.
 
brightboy said:
There is a lot of discussion and innuendo on this forum about what and and what is not allowed in respect to player payments in Subbies. Can someone state current requirements including overseas players. Who is responsible for monitoring or is it an honesty system ?
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Each of the 28 clubs may have one paid professional, and one paid development coach. These need to be signed off by the Subbies executive each season. As far as overseas players goes its a little more complicated, as it depends on the levele the player played and his country of origin.
As a general rule if you have not played in the top tiers County 1s or 2s equivalent at a band one country, England, India etc then you may play as many overseas players as you can.

The overseas players fall under the guidelines for paid players in that you may only have two in total, whether they be a mix of local or overseas.

As for the points system, it was discussed in significant detail several years ago, and overwhelmingly defeated at delegate level. No doubt the present model is flawed, but I have not seen any evidence a points cap brings greater parity, I am also suspicious it puts moreof a financial strain on struglling clubs which should be avoided at all costs.

Personally I'm open to another discussion and presentation of evidence, but those were my issues last time it was on the agenda.
 
B&G OCC said:
Each of the 28 clubs may have one paid professional, and one paid development coach. These need to be signed off by the Subbies executive each season. As far as overseas players goes its a little more complicated, as it depends on the levele the player played and his country of origin.
As a general rule if you have not played in the top tiers County 1s or 2s equivalent at a band one country, England, India etc then you may play as many overseas players as you can.

The overseas players fall under the guidelines for paid players in that you may only have two in total, whether they be a mix of local or overseas.

As for the points system, it was discussed in significant detail several years ago, and overwhelmingly defeated at delegate level. No doubt the present model is flawed, but I have not seen any evidence a points cap brings greater parity, I am also suspicious it puts moreof a financial strain on struglling clubs which should be avoided at all costs.

Personally I'm open to another discussion and presentation of evidence, but those were my issues last time it was on the agenda.
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Just did a 30 sec guesstimate of Ormond's points from the premiership, 70 points is my guess. 7 ex Premier plus 1 OS plus 1 ex VTCA. Would have needed to drop 4 players based on 44 (?) point cap in VTCA.

When you say it could place a strain on struggling clubs is that because you think players that aren't currently being paid will ask for money because they could under a points system?
 
Round the grounds said:
When you say it could place a strain on struggling clubs is that because you think players that aren't currently being paid will ask for money because they could under a points system?
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Basically yes, I think it would dramatically change the culture of a competition which has operated essentially under the same conditions for the best part of 100+ years. Local footy often has every player paid, even if only a nominal amount, I prefer the clear dilineation between paid and non-paid and think it creates a more harmonious relationship. We certainly want to avoid greed, and clubs spending outside their means. By all means though I am open as I've stated to look at models which achieve better results overall for the comp.
 
Round the grounds said:
Just did a 30 sec guesstimate of Ormond's points from the premiership, 70 points is my guess. 7 ex Premier plus 1 OS plus 1 ex VTCA. Would have needed to drop 4 players based on 44 (?) point cap in VTCA.

When you say it could place a strain on struggling clubs is that because you think players that aren't currently being paid will ask for money because they could under a points system?
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Its an interesting debate but I am all for getting as many good players into the competition as possible. I realise it would be best if they were distributed evenly across all 28 sides but that is never going to happen. I say well done to Ormond getting 7 ex Premier Players and that is why they won the flag. I also don't for a second believe that all of those 7 players were getting paid. It is good for the competition that those players were playing and it is not as if they were the total dominate side throughout the season.

It encourages clubs to do well with sponsorship, maintain relationships with ex players and also form relationships with district clubs. As B&G OCC mentioned it would change the culture of the comp and I think the comp is in pretty healthy order at the minute.

As far as rumours and player movements go, I am afraid my leads have dried up.
 
On paper, the existing provisions don't seem too bad and that has never been my concern. It's just that I have seen little evidence of them being policed. Does the VSDCA have the resources to do so and, if the answer is ''no'', then it is valid to look at a more transparent alternative.
 
Round the grounds said:
Just did a 30 sec guesstimate of Ormond's points from the premiership, 70 points is my guess. 7 ex Premier plus 1 OS plus 1 ex VTCA. Would have needed to drop 4 players based on 44 (?) point cap in VTCA.

When you say it could place a strain on struggling clubs is that because you think players that aren't currently being paid will ask for money because they could under a points system?
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I believe the vtca cap is 39 points
 
Round the grounds said:
Just did a 30 sec guesstimate of Ormond's points from the premiership, 70 points is my guess. 7 ex Premier plus 1 OS plus 1 ex VTCA. Would have needed to drop 4 players based on 44 (?) point cap in VTCA.

When you say it could place a strain on struggling clubs is that because you think players that aren't currently being paid will ask for money because they could under a points system?
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In many regards it is irrelevant. The first step is to decide to use a points system. Then the competition in consultation with the clubs can begin to decide what that looks like a) No. of points per player type (including depreciation), b) points cap, c) transition period etc.
The VSDCA needn't be slave to the system the VTCA uses, but would be wise to at least look at how the system is working in that comp there.
 
In theory, B&G's point about the probability of the points system putting pressure on financially struggling clubs is correct. Unfortunately, the practical outworking of the present system, due to it not being policed, is that it offers no relief to financially struggling clubs.
 
Those that think bringing in the points system will encourage spending should highlight this to AFL Victoria, who are bringing in the points system to stop over the top spending.

Funny, most other comps are going towards points system. But yeah, subbies is the best so why change right.

Wish Cricket Victoria followed the lead of footy and tell the associations this is how cricket will be run in this state, rather than negotiating.
 
Crickileaks said:
Those that think bringing in the points system will encourage spending should highlight this to AFL Victoria, who are bringing in the points system to stop over the top spending.

Funny, most other comps are going towards points system. But yeah, subbies is the best so why change right.

Wish Cricket Victoria followed the lead of footy and tell the associations this is how cricket will be run in this state, rather than negotiating.
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Yeah, that'd work well.
 
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