The BaggyGreens Thread

Richie

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Baggers back here on Big Cricket after a long absence. Ok if I create this thread on everything to do with the Australian Test cricket side. Known unofficially as the Baggy Greens.
 
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This pandemic has played havoc with international Test cricket tho England has managed to slip in two three tester series against both the Windies and the Pakis. Both of which were relative easy victories for the Pommies. We Aussies will have to wait until almost Christmas to taste some more Test cricket with India and the Afghans touring and taking on our Baggy Greens on our turf.

Baggers.
 
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Is Cricket Australia risking the absence of two of our best Test bowling attack, Josh Hazlewood amd Pat Cummins for the upcoming Indian Test tour, by allowing them to play in the IPL?

Hazlewood told reporters this week that he is "concerned" that 13 personnel, including two team mates, from his franchise the Chenai Super Kings have contracted Coronavirus and were in isolation. Pat Cummins will turn out for the Kolkata Knight Riders in the IPL which has been transferred to the UAE due to the virus ravaging India. Test batsmen Steve Smith and Dave Warner are also playing in the IPL.

Worst case scenario.. losing all four players would surely hand the four match series to India on a platter.

Baggers
 
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I continue to be dumbfounded how year after year our Test players are handed white ball cricket for preparation of a big Test series. The formats are chalk and cheese. Instead of having the red ball of the Shield to prepare for the Indian tour four of our best, Smith, Cummins, Hazlewood and Warner will be smashing the white ball or being cannon fodder in the UAE. All this may be conjecture as the life disruptive pandemic has put Australian cricket in a tailspin.

Baggers
 
I continue to be dumbfounded how year after year our Test players are handed white ball cricket for preparation of a big Test series. The formats are chalk and cheese. Instead of having the red ball of the Shield to prepare for the Indian tour four of our best, Smith, Cummins, Hazlewood and Warner will be smashing the white ball or being cannon fodder in the UAE. All this may be conjecture as the life disruptive pandemic has put Australian cricket in a tailspin.
Exactly Baggers... it's ridiculous to try & prepare for a test series using the short form stuff as a build up, test cricket is all about patience, concentration & composure, need a huge change in mindset between test cricket & the white ball stuff.
 
CA has lost the plot completely. It has cancelled till next year the inaugural Aust v Afghan Test slated for this summer. Yet it retains the four match series against India. This is purely a business/money decision as Covid is raging thru India currently with well over a 1000 daily deaths. Surely this means that Indian cricketers due to tour are at greater risk of contracting the virus. On the other hand Afghanistan is almost Covid-free. What is even more baffling is CA has also abandoned the proposed white ball series against the Kiwis until 2021. Why and why has a 2/3 games test series with the Black Caps not replaced the cancelled Afghan test? Australia and NZ have all but eradicated the virus. Where is this virus-free bubble between countries people speak of?
 
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I am afraid the lure of the big bucks is too much for some. I am disappointed that two of the best from our Test attack.. Cummins and Hazlewood plus the bloke Australian cricket cant do without ..Steve Smith accepted the big bucks over common sense. Much prefer they were on hand for the Blues in the first few games of the Shield.
 
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Reckon the recruiters got it wrong with Cummins. Like Hazlewood a great Test bowler but he is not a white ball bowler. He was shocking against the Poms. I dont regard Hazlewood as selfish.. a little naive if he is aware he is mostly to be used as a net bowler. If that is the case his team skipper is disrespecting an accomplished white ball bowler. If I was Carey I'd have knocked back their offer telling them I wanna be the first team keeper. Carey 'd keep Pant under the table. As for his batting his recent white ball ton against the Pommies was all class.
 
With you on this. Our Test attack needs to be told to forestall IPL and either have a off season or two in England or turn out for the first two/three Shield matches. I disagree that Hazlewood is a bad as you make out. He is a quality red ball bowler and a worthy member of our Test attack. He is a moderate white ball bowler who has never been able to overcome someone taking the big stick to him..ala Stokes in that game. Despite this his white ball record is not all that shabby. Having said this, I have maintained all along that our white ball attack needs to be comprised of specialist white ball bowlers.. blokes that shine in BBL or ODD year after year. The Poms have this policy and it works for them.
 
Hazlewood is in the incumbent attack. As much as I admire Patto.. he is the reserve bowler. If anyone needs to go it is the perennially inconsistent Starc. He has been around since 2011 and has only played 57 matches.. and up till his past 10 tests averaged a piddling @29.
Siddles record dont stack up with Hazlewoods. Siddle has had his moments in Test cricket and has a big heart but lacks the quality of the Tamworth product. Admittedly Hazes figures had slumped over the past year but he was back to his best in the Ashes. And how is he supposed to prove himself at state level to satisfy you if he is unavailable due to Test commitments. He has proven himself to those that matter..CA..whenever he has turned out for the Blues. Again check records.
 
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I like all proud pure cricket mad Australians was devastated over Sandpapergate. Shocked above all. Did we need to resort to this as we have been winning Test matches without cheating for 150 years. Were we in great danger of losing the Test in question? And what of it. We have lost Test matches before.

Baseless conjecture that the quicks were complicite in Warners devious plot. Funny you dont mention Cummins in your so called bowlers plot. If you are as big a cricket follower as you make out 69er then you must know that Hazlewood is not and has never been a swing bowler.. he is a specialist seam bowler.. relies on moving the ball off the seam..not in the air for a majority of his wickets.. Starc on the other hand does rely on his wickets from a swinging ball.

I agree to this extent with you Warner shud have been sacked never to have worn a baggy green again. He was the instigator and carried out his cowardly plan by using a young rather naive cricketer to do his dirty work. That is reprehensible behavior. Smith was only guilty of being weak as piss by turning a blind eye to a cheating act.. reason CA saw fit to not remove him permanently from the captaincy role.
I reckon now we can put Sandpapergate to bed. Dont you. And please no more Hazlewood or Blues bashing. It is tiresome and I wont reply in future.
 
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I am pretty excited by our next gen pace bowlers.. Bartlett, Kelly, Ellis, Hadley, Edwards, Neil-Smith, Hardie, Morris. All r/armers . Where are our next gen lefties?
 
I mentioned the leftie issue as I want someone to stand up and take Starc's place. I reckon the only reason Starc was first picked back in national U19s and why they continue with him is to balance the attack and the fact that, like all l/armers, he has ability to move the ball away from lefties.
Forget about the poor figures by some as they have hardly played any FC games. They have impressed me in the few they have played.. such as Neil-Smith. There were big wraps on David Moody and Mickey Edwards but they have dropped off the perch. Hadley will get his chance to further impress selectors .. that is if they play any Futures this summer. Hardie a Pom.. we dont want them playing for us. ;)
 
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Who do you see as next gen bowlers and bats. I will throw up a few names for future Aussie willow wielders. Tests only.
Two certainties in Will Pucovski and Cameron Green. Bryce Street (probable), Daniel Drew, Lachlan Hearne, Corey Hunter, Ryan Hackney, Mitchell Owen, Oliver Davies, Cooper Connolly, Bradley Hope, Tom Kelly (possibles).
Jason Sangha, Henry Hunt, Mac Wright (outsiders)
 
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I can find nothing at state level on Sam Fanning. Except he is another promising player let go by us. WA giving him huge wraps. Another kid I did not mention is Jaden Goodwin.. son of Murray.
Leave national underage out of the equasion 69er. I am talking only of red ball performances. Look at Drew, Davies, Hearnes, and some of the others Futures & PL results (MyCricket). Jason Sangha's bowling is seen as all rounder standard despite what you say. Nevill rarely bowls him but CA rates him. Can Tanveer Sangha (no relation) bat. I have always regarded slow bowlers to be able to hold a bat and contribute substantive runs. Pope who looks our most promising wristie bats 10 for his state. Warne made many handy contributions with the willow.
Most of those quicks you mentioned are already on the scene.. I'm speaking only of emerging pacemen. Will Sutherland looks no more than a handy licorice allsorts cricketer for mine.. Jon Merlo impressed in underage and CA white ball.. not seen much of him in red ball. Will Lovell? Have heard of Angus. Where has he gone too may I ask?
And what of emerging spinners. We have a plethora of those coming thru. Tanveer Sangha, Will Parker, Arjun Nair, Liam O'Connor. I still have Daniel Fallins in this list. Shud not have been delisted from the Blues without barely playing a state red ball match. WA Chinaman tweaker Clinton Hinchliffe is in the same boat. One wristie you probably have not heard much about.. Devin Malone. Doubt the rest of the country will either as this kid is another promising cricket that selectors ignore. Has not played a Futures match that I recall. From memory the Sydneysider took all 10 innings wickets in his second PL top grade match as a 17 year old.. link to his PL record. http://mycricket.cricket.com.au/com...yer.aspx?playerid=719027&save=0&entityid=1900
 
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Yes and no. Hit the deck types yes as their S/R is usually steeper than say the more conventional bowler such as a seamer. A specialist seamer relies less on pace and more on removing a batsmen by building pressure thru relentless accuracy. There is no discrepancy with a hit the deck bloke.. 99.9 % of his wickets come from aggression and pace whereas a wily seamer can work over a batsman mentally but another bowler may take his wicket.. due to a reckless batting release from built up pressure by his seamer partner.. thus belying the seamer's abilty due to a lesser S/R. I will always view the worth of a specialist seamer superior to a down and out speed merchant.
 
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You no doubt have heard of Craig Howard. I have not as he only played 16 games for the VICS. I am reading he is now CA's official spin coach and oversaw the last spin camp at the NCC back in 2019. This is the list of tweakers invited to attend the camp.
Ashton Agar (WA), Tom Andrews (SA), Daniel Fallins (NSW), Jarrod Freeman (Tas), Chris Green (NSW), Todd Murphy (Vic), Arjun Nair (NSW), Tom O'Connell (Vic), Wil Parker (Vic), Lloyd Pope (SA), Jason Sangha (NSW), Tanveer Sangha (NSW), Mitchell Swepson (Qld), Ryan Walker (Qld).
A few names unknown to me.. Ryan Walker, Todd Murphy and Tom O'Connell.

Jarrod Freeman has barely had a game with Tasmania and they are screaming out for a specialist tweaker. Does Wil Parker have a Vic rookie contract. He looks a good prospect. Not surprising either is no Devin Malone. The kid is averaging @20.4 with 400 PL wickets under his belt and no one of note is seeing this.
 
Absolutely Richie... in tests especially it's
Yes and no. Hit the deck types yes as their S/R is usually steeper than say the more conventional bowler such as a seamer. A specialist seamer relies less on pace and more on removing a batsmen by building pressure thru relentless accuracy. There is no discrepancy with a hit the deck bloke.. 99.9 % of his wickets come from aggression and pace whereas a wily seamer can work over a batsman mentally but another bowler may take his wicket.. due to a reckless batting release from built up pressure by his seamer partner.. thus belying the seamer's abilty due to a lesser S/R. I will always view the worth of a specialist seamer superior to a down and out speed merchant.
Absolutely Richie, your specialist seamer consistently applies good pressure to the batsmen generally adding more value to the attack than an express bowler who tends to spray the ball either side of the wicket... a test match is a game of patience so want them to play at the ball as much as possible & constantly threaten them bowling in good areas.
 
Absolutely Richie... in tests especially it's

Absolutely Richie, your specialist seamer consistently applies good pressure to the batsmen generally adding more value to the attack than an express bowler who tends to spray the ball either side of the wicket... a test match is a game of patience so want them to play at the ball as much as possible & constantly threaten them bowling in good areas.
Precisely Mal. Consequently his strike rate may be down so is his wicket tally. Dont mean he is any less of a bowler than a express merchant.
 
Devlin Malone? Wasn't he around when Pope dominated U19 in 2016
Not him. Well if you have taken all 10 wickets as a 17 year old and in the top grade surely that sends a signal to selectors that this kid may be special. That has proven the case with his impressive record. How many leggies do you know that average @20 after playing 4/5 years of top grade PC. In fact how many spinners period. Betting Pope never has nor any of those on your list.. even Zampa. Was Warne averaging @20 at Malone's age?

Glenn McGrath proves that. Average number of wickets per test extremely high at 4.5. Low Strike rate? Yes only 52. Low average? Yes 21.
Didnt you say anything under 5 wkts per test was sub standard. I certainly dont think it is. Btw it took the great man some time to reach those kinda figures. Once he did he maintained them. That is why he goes down as one the games great bowlers. I recall McGrath only came into his own on the West Indies tour of 95.. two years after his debut. I think it was McDermott and Mr Bowlologist went down with injury either before or on tour and McGrath was called in. He finished with the second best figures behind Courtney Walsh.

Strike bowlers make economical bowlers look better than what they are because batsmen start chasing deliveries they would normally leave to the keeper, in fear that the strike bowler is going to take their wicket
Pie in the sky stuff. The economic bowler applies pressure not only with his accuracy but by putting the batsman in two minds.. whether to play a delivery or not. His wickets often come with the batman's decision to play at the wrong ball.

You don't follow age cricket?
I most certainly do, despite it being white ball. How else do you keep up with the next gen cricketer. Name still dont ring any bells. I watch so much cricket sometimes it is just a blur. Wasn't the last WC held overseas? Perhaps I missed the game.. or simply forgot that innings of Murphy.
 
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