Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)

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Leggy88 said:
Didn't bowl too well on the weekend - 5 overs 1/30. First over I bowled and the two batsmen at the crease were not much chop, so I got one caught and bowled with a topspinner and the other was runout in the same over. Then two first grade batsmen came to the crease and I nearly got an lbw from a nice leg spinner - although the umpire reckoned it pitched outside leg. When I bowled good lengths they struggled, apart from a few cracking shots where my execution was perfect but they were just too good. Then I got frustrated and bowled 2 full tosses an over, which were smacked. They also turned a few relatively full balls into full tosses through the use of their feet. But man, those full tosses really annoyed me.

Do you guys struggle with full tosses? If so, what do you focus on to fix the problem?

Also, my next game is end of January, so I've got a fair amount of time to come back a better player.
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Used to when I got nervous - really badly and then it used to go from bad to worse. This is where you have to have a ball you can trust in, for me that's been the Flipper.
 
Leggy88 said:
Didn't bowl too well on the weekend - 5 overs 1/30. First over I bowled and the two batsmen at the crease were not much chop, so I got one caught and bowled with a topspinner and the other was runout in the same over. Then two first grade batsmen came to the crease and I nearly got an lbw from a nice leg spinner - although the umpire reckoned it pitched outside leg. When I bowled good lengths they struggled, apart from a few cracking shots where my execution was perfect but they were just too good. Then I got frustrated and bowled 2 full tosses an over, which were smacked. They also turned a few relatively full balls into full tosses through the use of their feet. But man, those full tosses really annoyed me.

Do you guys struggle with full tosses? If so, what do you focus on to fix the problem?

Also, my next game is end of January, so I've got a fair amount of time to come back a better player.
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Thats tough man. Yeah full tosses is a problem, when it starts happening I stare at a spot on the pitch until the ball has left my hands, if that doesn't work then I slow down everything action/ball speed to get back into rhythm or just switch to my googlytoRH which requires a high arm action. I feel slowing it down and spot stare usually helps.
 
Chinaman34 said:
Thats tough man. Yeah full tosses is a problem, when it starts happening I stare at a spot on the pitch until the ball has left my hands, if that doesn't work then I slow down everything action/ball speed to get back into rhythm or just switch to my googlytoRH which requires a high arm action. I feel slowing it down and spot stare usually helps.
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Slowing things down is good advice, I think most of us in these scenarios tend to speed things up, but it always feels counter intuitive. Warne would say relax more - grip the ball looser, which again is difficult in these situations.
 
C Chinaman34 I meant to say something about this... "So I did some research and might have found why my back hurts". I have no idea about how old you are or how fit you are generally, but do you spend a lot of time sitting an computers and when you practice bowling how many hours a day and how often in a week do you bowl?
 
SomeblokecalledDave. said:
Used to when I got nervous - really badly and then it used to go from bad to worse. This is where you have to have a ball you can trust in, for me that's been the Flipper.
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Yeah, it was happening when I was under pressure too. For me, I think its the top spinner.

Chinaman34 said:
Thats tough man. Yeah full tosses is a problem, when it starts happening I stare at a spot on the pitch until the ball has left my hands, if that doesn't work then I slow down everything action/ball speed to get back into rhythm or just switch to my googlytoRH which requires a high arm action. I feel slowing it down and spot stare usually helps.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I should probably work on staring at a certain spot I want to bowl at when I'm bowling, because right now I just watch a general area. I also saw this thing about basketball where the players say they stare at the tiniest mark on the rim where they want to target, as if they miss the small target they might still hit the big one and make the shot. Maybe that would work for bowlers too?

And yeah I agree, I need to work on slowing things down too. Thanks for the tips guys.
 
SomeblokecalledDave. said:
C Chinaman34 I meant to say something about this... "So I did some research and might have found why my back hurts". I have no idea about how old you are or how fit you are generally, but do you spend a lot of time sitting an computers and when you practice bowling how many hours a day and how often in a week do you bowl?
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I'm 33. I have a back injury as well, I might be falling away during my action, putting more strain on the right side. But I haven't really checkout any recordings of my bowling action yet. Lots of sitting around where I work. Anyway, I should go train today. Need to stop being lazy.
 
Chinaman34 said:
I'm 33. I have a back injury as well, I might be falling away during my action, putting more strain on the right side. But I haven't really checkout any recordings of my bowling action yet. Lots of sitting around where I work. Anyway, I should go train today. Need to stop being lazy.
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Do you know about all the current theories relating to core strength and the importance of working your Glutes (Butt muscles) in relation to fixing and preventing back issues? I'm 62, but relatively fit - very rarely have issues with my back and in the summer bowl for hours in the nets each day. If I do go through a phase of not keeping on top of my fitness regime (Albeit a fairly lax regime) my back goes to pieces very quickly, especially as like you much of what I do is sitting at a computer. But I have some very quick fixes in those scenarios that work within days and they're all to do with hip flexibility, core strength and having decent glutes. It comes down to a very simple mantra - don't lose it or you'll lose it.
 
Leggy88 said:
Yeah, it was happening when I was under pressure too. For me, I think its the top spinner.



Yeah, I should probably work on staring at a certain spot I want to bowl at when I'm bowling, because right now I just watch a general area. I also saw this thing about basketball where the players say they stare at the tiniest mark on the rim where they want to target, as if they miss the small target they might still hit the big one and make the shot. Maybe that would work for bowlers too?

And yeah I agree, I need to work on slowing things down too. Thanks for the tips guys.
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When you bowl, do you lay down a target area in the net or wherever you practice (Only really do this when you're practicing on your own) I use a bit of that fake grass or a car mat, you've probably seen the vids of me doing it? A couple of springs ago I took it a lot further and started plotting pitch maps for where I was landing the ball - a right palaver setting it up but interesting in terms of consistency or lack of consistency and obviously brutal in terms of feedback for yourself.
 
SomeblokecalledDave. said:
When you bowl, do you lay down a target area in the net or wherever you practice (Only really do this when you're practicing on your own) I use a bit of that fake grass or a car mat, you've probably seen the vids of me doing it? A couple of springs ago I took it a lot further and started plotting pitch maps for where I was landing the ball - a right palaver setting it up but interesting in terms of consistency or lack of consistency and obviously brutal in terms of feedback for yourself.
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Yeah, that actually sounds like something that would be very interesting to try. I'll give it a go in the coming weeks!
 
SomeblokecalledDave. said:
When you bowl, do you lay down a target area in the net or wherever you practice (Only really do this when you're practicing on your own) I use a bit of that fake grass or a car mat, you've probably seen the vids of me doing it? A couple of springs ago I took it a lot further and started plotting pitch maps for where I was landing the ball - a right palaver setting it up but interesting in terms of consistency or lack of consistency and obviously brutal in terms of feedback for yourself.
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Hey Dave, any advice on how to learn the flipper, anything you thought had you known earlier on, that would have helped you learn and master the flipper quicker. Any research and development (R&D) cheat codes haha?
 
Chinaman34 said:
Hey Dave, any advice on how to learn the flipper, anything you thought had you known earlier on, that would have helped you learn and master the flipper quicker. Any research and development (R&D) cheat codes haha?
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Also, when I bowl the flipper it comes out pretty slow and loopy. What adjustments need to be made?
 
Chinaman34 said:
Hey Dave, any advice on how to learn the flipper, anything you thought had you known earlier on, that would have helped you learn and master the flipper quicker. Any research and development (R&D) cheat codes haha?
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Start with a smaller lighter ball and just flick it from one hand to the other, just to hone the flicking action - don't try bowling it at this stage - just groove that action with the finger and thumb and move up to a kids ball and then a full size ball over a week or two. There's nothing I'd do differently, I got it pretty much nailed over an intensive period of 2 weeks of practice. Just be prepared to drop it short the and spray it around a bit initially, I think I started with a shorter wicket distance as well 18 yards? I was surprised how quickly it came together having read that Grimmett worked on it for 12 years, Benaud 5 years and the fact that it caused Warne all sorts of shoulder problems. Let me know how you get on with it?
 
Leggy88 said:
Thanks for that. Probably gonna wait another year or two before I start focusing on the flipper a bit more. I want to get my stock ball and basic variations of it very good.
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Do you know what order you'd do that in? For what it's worth, going by all the mistakes I made, which included 3, maybe four years not being able to bowl a Leg-Break I'd do the following. (1). focus most of your attention on bowling a nice Leg-Break, getting the length right and being able to vary the length and being able to land it in the same area at different speeds. Part of that will need to be able to bowl with more over-spin at the cost of less turn, unless you're able to vary the revs you put on the ball, as that'll get it to dip rather than relying on the over-spin. (2). Then start exploring your wrist variations getting it to spin sideway (90 degrees) for the big Leg-Break and then work on a much straighter one that turn just a little. That'll then set up to work on (3) a pure Top-Spinner which in my experience batters perceive as being a wrong-un. I reckon if you get that nailed, you'd only need to vary the wrist a little and you'll be bowling Wrong-uns with very little effort. Then the Flipper.
 
SomeblokecalledDave. said:
Do you know what order you'd do that in? For what it's worth, going by all the mistakes I made, which included 3, maybe four years not being able to bowl a Leg-Break I'd do the following. (1). focus most of your attention on bowling a nice Leg-Break, getting the length right and being able to vary the length and being able to land it in the same area at different speeds. Part of that will need to be able to bowl with more over-spin at the cost of less turn, unless you're able to vary the revs you put on the ball, as that'll get it to dip rather than relying on the over-spin. (2). Then start exploring your wrist variations getting it to spin sideway (90 degrees) for the big Leg-Break and then work on a much straighter one that turn just a little. That'll then set up to work on (3) a pure Top-Spinner which in my experience batters perceive as being a wrong-un. I reckon if you get that nailed, you'd only need to vary the wrist a little and you'll be bowling Wrong-uns with very little effort. Then the Flipper.
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Yeah, I will most likely keep bowling the pure topspinner throughout this though, as it isone of my most reliable deliveries.
I think because of this, my stock ball has a fair bit more over spin than side spin - I am not looking to change this though, as one Australian pitches you need a fair bit of topspin for the ball to grip. While developing this into a solid stock ball, I will work on one that is a bit more even with side spin and top spin. Then I’ll develop the tiny leg break with 95% topspin and the big leg break with 100% side spin. I may continue bowling a few wrong uns a session though, just to maintain that ability, but we’ll see.
Btw, how do you change the pace on your deliveries? Is it just arm speed? Because I saw this video with Warne saying he bowls a little higher arm for a slower, loopier delivery and a little lower arm for a quicker, flatter delivery. I will also work on using these changes of pace in Warne’s method on all my deliveries.

Before I start to work on variations like the wrongun and flipper seriously, I aim to be able to land 50/60 deliveries in an area I consider to be a ball that is a good length and a good line - possibly something a bats length away from the batters feet, and pitching from fourth stump to leg stump. I’ll probably have something double the size of a doormat to aim at. Right now, I can only get around 33/60 deliveries to land on this mat, and the other 27 are typically easy cut shots or full tosses.
 
Leggy88 said:
Yeah, I will most likely keep bowling the pure topspinner throughout this though, as it isone of my most reliable deliveries.
I think because of this, my stock ball has a fair bit more over spin than side spin - I am not looking to change this though, as one Australian pitches you need a fair bit of topspin for the ball to grip. While developing this into a solid stock ball, I will work on one that is a bit more even with side spin and top spin. Then I’ll develop the tiny leg break with 95% topspin and the big leg break with 100% side spin. I may continue bowling a few wrong uns a session though, just to maintain that ability, but we’ll see.
Btw, how do you change the pace on your deliveries? Is it just arm speed? Because I saw this video with Warne saying he bowls a little higher arm for a slower, loopier delivery and a little lower arm for a quicker, flatter delivery. I will also work on using these changes of pace in Warne’s method on all my deliveries.

Before I start to work on variations like the wrongun and flipper seriously, I aim to be able to land 50/60 deliveries in an area I consider to be a ball that is a good length and a good line - possibly something a bats length away from the batters feet, and pitching from fourth stump to leg stump. I’ll probably have something double the size of a doormat to aim at. Right now, I can only get around 33/60 deliveries to land on this mat, and the other 27 are typically easy cut shots or full tosses.
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Slowing it down - for me that's just a case of the arm speed or by going a lot more round arm. For some reason if I go round arm I have to put a lot more into it and it looks like I'm bowling a lot faster with more effort but that spins a lot more and dips (Sometimes drifts as well). It's probably one of my best balls, but for some reason I don't bowl like that a lot as it feels really weird and un-practiced. It's one of my variations that I never put a lot of time into... maybe I should? With regards your approach that sounds fine, developing a stock delivery with a lot of over-spin is always going to be useful especially if you can get it to turn away from the bat and bowl it with good accuracy.
 
SomeblokecalledDave. said:
Slowing it down - for me that's just a case of the arm speed or by going a lot more round arm. For some reason if I go round arm I have to put a lot more into it and it looks like I'm bowling a lot faster with more effort but that spins a lot more and dips (Sometimes drifts as well). It's probably one of my best balls, but for some reason I don't bowl like that a lot as it feels really weird and un-practiced. It's one of my variations that I never put a lot of time into... maybe I should? With regards your approach that sounds fine, developing a stock delivery with a lot of over-spin is always going to be useful especially if you can get it to turn away from the bat and bowl it with good accuracy.
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Yeah, that roundarm delivery of yours sounds like it’s worth the effort.
Hopefully it all goes smoothly
 
Hi guys, hope your all doing well. Got a new video of my bowling today, it seems like I might have got a bit of drift on some of these deliveries. One of the best wrong un's I've ever bowled features in here as well. I seem to have a real problem pitching it too full or too short for some deliveries though, can you see anything in my action that could lead to this?

I was thinking maybe it could be because my foot is pointing straight forward in delivery stride? Is this a problem? Or am I too open chested, causing inaccuracy? What are your thoughts on this? Would I be a better bowler if side on?

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