LIONS then DAYLIGHT
Banned
Re: Australia in India
Part of the reason we won the CT was Clarke wasn't playing.
Harsh but fair.
Part of the reason we won the CT was Clarke wasn't playing.
Harsh but fair.
Australia in India
- Thread starter eddiesmith
- Start date
Re: Australia in India
Yes fair, but I also have fallen into the trap of not measuring on the standards that he can perform and not looking back far enough.
Clarke is a bloody good bat, maybe not he best in Australia for his position, but has won and help won games for Australia. I'm not a Clarke fan at all, but he has done exactly what he needs to do in the past.
I think he is actually out of form, despite scoring so many runs. He seems to be getting by with a lot of luck and really scraping things together, not looking smooth.
I would like to see him come back into the team sooner rather than later.
LIONS then DAYLIGHT;371318 said:
Yes fair, but I also have fallen into the trap of not measuring on the standards that he can perform and not looking back far enough.
Clarke is a bloody good bat, maybe not he best in Australia for his position, but has won and help won games for Australia. I'm not a Clarke fan at all, but he has done exactly what he needs to do in the past.
I think he is actually out of form, despite scoring so many runs. He seems to be getting by with a lot of luck and really scraping things together, not looking smooth.
I would like to see him come back into the team sooner rather than later.
LIONS then DAYLIGHT
Banned
Re: Australia in India
I just think his a limited batsmen at the ODI level.
He doesn't have the ability of a Ponting, who can score at 90 runs per 100 balls without breaking a sweat, I remember Ponting belting Anderson for 3 fours in an over at the CT's and they were all just normal cricket shots with minimal risk.
Not many players can score at that rate without taking risks.
Clarke isn't an essential player in our ODI team as far as Im concerned.
I just think his a limited batsmen at the ODI level.
He doesn't have the ability of a Ponting, who can score at 90 runs per 100 balls without breaking a sweat, I remember Ponting belting Anderson for 3 fours in an over at the CT's and they were all just normal cricket shots with minimal risk.
Not many players can score at that rate without taking risks.
Clarke isn't an essential player in our ODI team as far as Im concerned.
LIONS then DAYLIGHT
Banned
Re: Australia in India
As an essential test player yes, but i'd like to see less of these shots with Bingle and less of these high-promo stories about his off-field life and what not.
I think it can build resentment in the team that sort of stuff, it just comes across that Clarke's image is very fabricated.
His refusual to have a photo shot with West Tigers League players a few years back because it might hurt his "image" was cringeworthy, his public humilation of ricky ponting after the MCG test last years was a disgrace.
As an essential test player yes, but i'd like to see less of these shots with Bingle and less of these high-promo stories about his off-field life and what not.
I think it can build resentment in the team that sort of stuff, it just comes across that Clarke's image is very fabricated.
His refusual to have a photo shot with West Tigers League players a few years back because it might hurt his "image" was cringeworthy, his public humilation of ricky ponting after the MCG test last years was a disgrace.
Re: Australia in India
He is a very glamour seeking person, always gotta be in the limelight. Makes me wonder if he has any attraction to Bingle other then he just has to have best.
Needs a bit less show, a bit more play IMO.
But he can score a run a ball when in proper form, and has 4 centuries under the belt, not too bad considering he has batted at 5 most of the time. His centuries have either come from when he opened or batted third. I think there is a little more with the opening side of things for him, I don't like Haddin there. Would prefer to see the slower going Clarke with someone like Watson/Marsh who can score above a run a ball from the start.
He is a very glamour seeking person, always gotta be in the limelight. Makes me wonder if he has any attraction to Bingle other then he just has to have best.
Needs a bit less show, a bit more play IMO.
But he can score a run a ball when in proper form, and has 4 centuries under the belt, not too bad considering he has batted at 5 most of the time. His centuries have either come from when he opened or batted third. I think there is a little more with the opening side of things for him, I don't like Haddin there. Would prefer to see the slower going Clarke with someone like Watson/Marsh who can score above a run a ball from the start.
LIONS then DAYLIGHT
Banned
Re: Australia in India
The strange thing about Clarke is that when he first came into the ODI team back in late 2002/2003 he was a free-scoring player. He wasn't a powerplayer, but he was a batsmen cut from the same cloth as Michael Bevan. He'd run hard, turn 2's into 3's, and 1's into 2's. I distinctly remember him playing an innings in a final against India in late 2003 in the TVS Cup.
This is the game im talking about.
Final: India v Australia at Kolkata, Nov 18, 2003 | Cricket Scorecard | Cricinfo.com
Clarke played a pivotal role in that win, I distinctly remember him playing the spinners very well and working the singles. He seems to struggle a bit higher up the order for some reason, maybe he is trying to hard to show that he is the next guy in line for the captainicy in the sense that his trying to get 'scores' to show that his standing up for the team.
I don't know, but it's frustating when you consider the way he played his cricket early on in the ODI arena.
The strange thing about Clarke is that when he first came into the ODI team back in late 2002/2003 he was a free-scoring player. He wasn't a powerplayer, but he was a batsmen cut from the same cloth as Michael Bevan. He'd run hard, turn 2's into 3's, and 1's into 2's. I distinctly remember him playing an innings in a final against India in late 2003 in the TVS Cup.
This is the game im talking about.
Final: India v Australia at Kolkata, Nov 18, 2003 | Cricket Scorecard | Cricinfo.com
Clarke played a pivotal role in that win, I distinctly remember him playing the spinners very well and working the singles. He seems to struggle a bit higher up the order for some reason, maybe he is trying to hard to show that he is the next guy in line for the captainicy in the sense that his trying to get 'scores' to show that his standing up for the team.
I don't know, but it's frustating when you consider the way he played his cricket early on in the ODI arena.
Re: Australia in India
I know the answer!
I researched this for a long time, with hours of painstaking hours on different websites.
I won't go through everything now, because it's a couple of thousand words, but it is because Symonds isn't there.
Big logic step you might be thinking, but that is my conclusion. Clarke has been pretty terrible in the field lately, or at least not up to his standard, and never has been without Roy next to him out classing him.
He has never been a free scoring batsman until Roy is in the team scoring at a SR of 120, and pushing hard for those threes and twos at the other end.
I have evidence to back it up, but I am certain that Clarke is a great player whenever Symonds is in the team, but then an average one when not.
I know the answer!
I researched this for a long time, with hours of painstaking hours on different websites.
I won't go through everything now, because it's a couple of thousand words, but it is because Symonds isn't there.
Big logic step you might be thinking, but that is my conclusion. Clarke has been pretty terrible in the field lately, or at least not up to his standard, and never has been without Roy next to him out classing him.
He has never been a free scoring batsman until Roy is in the team scoring at a SR of 120, and pushing hard for those threes and twos at the other end.
I have evidence to back it up, but I am certain that Clarke is a great player whenever Symonds is in the team, but then an average one when not.
LIONS then DAYLIGHT
Banned
Re: Australia in India
Any evidence champ?
Any evidence champ?
Re: Australia in India
Your opening a can of worms here... could lead to a few thousand words.
I will try and sum it up in a couple of sentences.
What is probably the best off side field arrangement ever in cricket, more specifically ODIs?
Ponting, Symonds, Clarke, Hussey. That would seriously scare any batsman into submission to not to hit it anywhere near there.
Who is Clarke's friendly rival on the field? Symonds and Clarke joke non-stop about each other's performance.
That is just the general idea. I did have lists of figures from all games that really proved his fielding efforts, more run outs and catches, especially spectacular ones, were made when Roy was right next to him.
As for batting I haven't completely looked into that but from what it is, it seems to be the same. Clarke is, simply put, lazy without Roy there. Those two made up the powerhouse fielding/batting combo where two mates ran hard and laughed when the other got out.
Just from opinion how much do you see the team joking around now? When the 'old team' with Roy, Hayden, Gilchrist, Clarke, Symonds and the other on field jokers were put together it was constant mucking around. On the cameras you saw them ripping each other off, making faces, laughing and general mucking about. All very fun to both be part of and watch. Also meant they were relaxed under all situations, I remember all of them doing impressions of each other when it was a 5 to win off 3 balls for the opposition. They performed better under those conditions.
Now how much do you see it? Only in the last couple of matches have I seen it slowly coming back. The field looks all perky and the team seems to be coming together a bit and the joking around is slowly coming back.
Clarke now doesn't have Gilly, Symonds or Hayden or anyone to do his captaincy work for him, even though he didn't have it then. He is now under pressure to vice captain and bat and feild at once.
There's a bit more to it and most of it is based on my viewing of games, but I surprised myself by doing something probably irrelevant.
The team is slowly coming together, and when that happens good old Australia will be back, and hopefully Clarke with it.
While I remember it I recall one game in the Chappel-Hadlee Trophy just before the World Cup, where Symonds wasn't playing because of the bicep he pulled of the bone. Australia was on a huge winning streak and looking better than ever, until Symonds left the team. Clarke then proceeded to drop 2 catches in the first match, followed by a couple of others for the series, plus missing run out opportunities. From memory he also averaged very low with the bat.
Friends perform best together. Time for Clarke to socialise a bit more with this new bunch.
Your opening a can of worms here... could lead to a few thousand words.
I will try and sum it up in a couple of sentences.
What is probably the best off side field arrangement ever in cricket, more specifically ODIs?
Ponting, Symonds, Clarke, Hussey. That would seriously scare any batsman into submission to not to hit it anywhere near there.
Who is Clarke's friendly rival on the field? Symonds and Clarke joke non-stop about each other's performance.
That is just the general idea. I did have lists of figures from all games that really proved his fielding efforts, more run outs and catches, especially spectacular ones, were made when Roy was right next to him.
As for batting I haven't completely looked into that but from what it is, it seems to be the same. Clarke is, simply put, lazy without Roy there. Those two made up the powerhouse fielding/batting combo where two mates ran hard and laughed when the other got out.
Just from opinion how much do you see the team joking around now? When the 'old team' with Roy, Hayden, Gilchrist, Clarke, Symonds and the other on field jokers were put together it was constant mucking around. On the cameras you saw them ripping each other off, making faces, laughing and general mucking about. All very fun to both be part of and watch. Also meant they were relaxed under all situations, I remember all of them doing impressions of each other when it was a 5 to win off 3 balls for the opposition. They performed better under those conditions.
Now how much do you see it? Only in the last couple of matches have I seen it slowly coming back. The field looks all perky and the team seems to be coming together a bit and the joking around is slowly coming back.
Clarke now doesn't have Gilly, Symonds or Hayden or anyone to do his captaincy work for him, even though he didn't have it then. He is now under pressure to vice captain and bat and feild at once.
There's a bit more to it and most of it is based on my viewing of games, but I surprised myself by doing something probably irrelevant.
The team is slowly coming together, and when that happens good old Australia will be back, and hopefully Clarke with it.
While I remember it I recall one game in the Chappel-Hadlee Trophy just before the World Cup, where Symonds wasn't playing because of the bicep he pulled of the bone. Australia was on a huge winning streak and looking better than ever, until Symonds left the team. Clarke then proceeded to drop 2 catches in the first match, followed by a couple of others for the series, plus missing run out opportunities. From memory he also averaged very low with the bat.
Friends perform best together. Time for Clarke to socialise a bit more with this new bunch.
LIONS then DAYLIGHT
Banned
Re: Australia in India
Look, im not buying any of that as valid reasons for Clarke's percieved, and that's what it is, because i dont have any hard stats to back up my opinion that his performances at ODI level have been ordinary as of late, I could find some, but at the minute I don't have time nor can I be bothered.
Clarke's fielding has been average as of late, his not the most natural slips fielder, which is where he currently fields, and I can't remember the last time he ran a guy out with a direct hit. Mostly its a fire, a miss, and a hand up to the bridge of the nose in frustation at how 'close' he was.
If Clarke can't perform at a high level because he isn't joking around, then perhaps he can play at a lower level of cricket without the cameras and he can joke around all he wants to.
Compare that to Ricky Ponting, a player who has had his fair share of critics who have each driven a knife or two into his back, the majority of which has been totally unjustified and disgraceful considering how loyal Ponting has been to Australia over many years.
All of that and Ponting still comes out, blazes a hundred, runs guys out almost at will, hauls in tracer bullet catchs.
If Clarke can't perform at a certain level because he doesn't of symo to stuff around with then he probably shouldn't take the captainicy when it comes his way, possibly as early as Jan 8th 2010, when I believe Ricky Ponting will retire from test cricket after regaining the Ashes.
Ponting isn't our greatest captain, but he sure as hell is one of the most determined. Clarke doesn't appear to have that drive to me, in some ways his the golden boy, many still harbour grudges against him due to his elevation to the test team in 04 when his statistics probably didn't warrant it, and then his reselection based on the injury to Watson on the eve of the 06/07 Ashes rather than any merit.
Look, im not buying any of that as valid reasons for Clarke's percieved, and that's what it is, because i dont have any hard stats to back up my opinion that his performances at ODI level have been ordinary as of late, I could find some, but at the minute I don't have time nor can I be bothered.
Clarke's fielding has been average as of late, his not the most natural slips fielder, which is where he currently fields, and I can't remember the last time he ran a guy out with a direct hit. Mostly its a fire, a miss, and a hand up to the bridge of the nose in frustation at how 'close' he was.
If Clarke can't perform at a high level because he isn't joking around, then perhaps he can play at a lower level of cricket without the cameras and he can joke around all he wants to.
Compare that to Ricky Ponting, a player who has had his fair share of critics who have each driven a knife or two into his back, the majority of which has been totally unjustified and disgraceful considering how loyal Ponting has been to Australia over many years.
All of that and Ponting still comes out, blazes a hundred, runs guys out almost at will, hauls in tracer bullet catchs.
If Clarke can't perform at a certain level because he doesn't of symo to stuff around with then he probably shouldn't take the captainicy when it comes his way, possibly as early as Jan 8th 2010, when I believe Ricky Ponting will retire from test cricket after regaining the Ashes.
Ponting isn't our greatest captain, but he sure as hell is one of the most determined. Clarke doesn't appear to have that drive to me, in some ways his the golden boy, many still harbour grudges against him due to his elevation to the test team in 04 when his statistics probably didn't warrant it, and then his reselection based on the injury to Watson on the eve of the 06/07 Ashes rather than any merit.
Re: Australia in India
Yep I agree with you mostly, but just remember my little 'theory' isn't necessarily the case.
I think he performs best when he is working as part of a team of mates. At the moment he doesn't really have and of the friends of the old team, like Roy. There are a lot of players like that, but haven't had to go through the ups and downs he has. Don't be too hard on him because of that side of his game play, but I don't think he would make a good captain at all.
If he does become captain though, we are just going to have to live with it and stop giving him a bad wrap so it doesn't continue like the Ponting war on his captaincy has forever now. I'm sure as a captain he will win games and it's not as if after the decision is made that we can change it.
He is a good player, although I have never liked him, but I do believe that Symonds brought out the best in everyone.
Yep I agree with you mostly, but just remember my little 'theory' isn't necessarily the case.
I think he performs best when he is working as part of a team of mates. At the moment he doesn't really have and of the friends of the old team, like Roy. There are a lot of players like that, but haven't had to go through the ups and downs he has. Don't be too hard on him because of that side of his game play, but I don't think he would make a good captain at all.
If he does become captain though, we are just going to have to live with it and stop giving him a bad wrap so it doesn't continue like the Ponting war on his captaincy has forever now. I'm sure as a captain he will win games and it's not as if after the decision is made that we can change it.
He is a good player, although I have never liked him, but I do believe that Symonds brought out the best in everyone.
LIONS then DAYLIGHT
Banned
Re: Australia in India
Symonds is long gone from the team, at the end of the day Symonds let himself down, and he let Ponting down. Who was the player that campaigned for him so strongly in the lead up to the 2003 WC, where Symonds finally came good.
That performance at that tournament indirectly faciliatated his inclusion in the test team a year later in Sri Lanka, and then 1 and a half years later against South Africa.
Symonds owes Ponting a lot, it's a shame Roy didn't have the brains to realise this or if he did he simply couln't give a stuff.
Symonds is long gone from the team, at the end of the day Symonds let himself down, and he let Ponting down. Who was the player that campaigned for him so strongly in the lead up to the 2003 WC, where Symonds finally came good.
That performance at that tournament indirectly faciliatated his inclusion in the test team a year later in Sri Lanka, and then 1 and a half years later against South Africa.
Symonds owes Ponting a lot, it's a shame Roy didn't have the brains to realise this or if he did he simply couln't give a stuff.
Re: Australia in India
Well we can't really say anything more about Symonds, he was a great player that let himself and his team down.
I guess I'm still mourning over it really. I am trying everything possible to convince myself and others he will come back but I know it won't be, and he doesn't want it.
I would say he knew all this but he does have a problem, something personal, that was stopping it.
Anyway Symonds is probably a bad thing to talk about before heading to India...
Well we can't really say anything more about Symonds, he was a great player that let himself and his team down.
I guess I'm still mourning over it really. I am trying everything possible to convince myself and others he will come back but I know it won't be, and he doesn't want it.
I would say he knew all this but he does have a problem, something personal, that was stopping it.
Anyway Symonds is probably a bad thing to talk about before heading to India...
LIONS then DAYLIGHT
Banned
Re: Australia in India
Australia bat first and once again Ponting is in early, Ponting scored a brillant 74. Hussey and White continue to go to work and the score is building.
Australia bat first and once again Ponting is in early, Ponting scored a brillant 74. Hussey and White continue to go to work and the score is building.
eddiesmith
Active Member
Re: Australia in India
Another fine performance by Cameron White, averaging 46 since his recall to the team. Although in that time he has also averaged 67 at no3 and 57 at no4
Another fine performance by Cameron White, averaging 46 since his recall to the team. Although in that time he has also averaged 67 at no3 and 57 at no4
LIONS then DAYLIGHT
Banned
Re: Australia in India
Cameron White, his allright.
Cameron White, his allright.