Subbies 2011/12

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Hmmm,so much for the new hard line/zero tolerance approach.
the umpire in question would be have to be a bit disillusioned with the penalties handed out.
 
Oakleigh v Endeavour Hills - What the hell happened here? Did they declare or were they missing one?

What has happened to the Evans' boys, haven't made the trip back?
 
I will have a stab halfway through.

Oakleigh will Have there second outright of the season v end hills. Pinwill will finish with 50 wickets at this rate.
I'm tipping mt waverly in a very tight one v the wicks. Sholtz the key if Elsternwick is any chance.
Brighton might just snatch this one. Box hill have been good so far but will the wheels fall off. BH bowling is strong but can they bat?
Kingston easy
Noble should have it wrapped up just after tea unless Pradeep digs the heels in.
Caulfield will cruise in.
Malvern should win with 238 (Stranger the youngster does it again with 5 poles)
 
Don't take this as a sledge against Pinwill, because he is a good bowler, but is the pitch at Oakleigh OK? As the Oaks racked up 200+, you'd think not, however, there have been rumblings that it is now a bit 'bowler friendly'.
 
Super Saint said:
Don't take this as a sledge against Pinwill, because he is a good bowler, but is the pitch at Oakleigh OK? As the Oaks racked up 200+, you'd think not, however, there have been rumblings that it is now a bit 'bowler friendly'.
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Ha, probably a fair comment based on results, but I can guarantee it is all Pinwill. As a fellow bowler at the club, I love away games. Warrawee is and has always been a very batsman friendly deck.
 
Horrendous is being kind,results like that are just inexcuseable and does not reflect well on the competition as a whole.
At the risk of another presidential rant,is it time the exec looked at a club like this's suitability for remaining in subbies?
Since they were admitted what would be there win/loss ratio I wonder,might make for pretty disturbing reading.
Surely the settling in period has expired by now,maybe they'd be more suited back in there local comp?
Am I being too harsh,Thoughts anyone?
 
We can't say much as we were beaten by them!

I would suggest it is probably a hard task out there, being in the middle of the DDCA who are picking up players on good money and probably having a crack at theirs as well. We certainly struggle with too many clubs in the area and our results have shown in the past, however, some different initiatives have improved us this year (the PNG boys have been fantastic). I think it's a little harsh, however, you are right, you can't just keep plodding along forever.

The question then becomes who comes in if they are out? Probably still have the same issue.
 
Yep,someone has to be on the bottom I guess.
Would there ever be a case for looking at a restructure with a promotion/relegation scenario/
Maybe take the top 3 or 4 teams from each group and make it Division 1,eg,Altona,Melton,Willy from the West,Caulfield,Malvern,Brighton from the south etc etc with the premier from Divsion 2 going up.
Probably too radical for Subbies who are pretty conservative by nature.
Some clubs who maybe allocated a spot in the 2nd Division would get their noses out of joint too.Still,could be possible with a lot of tinkering,thoughts?
 
Piston Broke said:
Yep,someone has to be on the bottom I guess.
Would there ever be a case for looking at a restructure with a promotion/relegation scenario/
Maybe take the top 3 or 4 teams from each group and make it Division 1,eg,Altona,Melton,Willy from the West,Caulfield,Malvern,Brighton from the south etc etc with the premier from Divsion 2 going up.
Probably too radical for Subbies who are pretty conservative by nature.
Some clubs who maybe allocated a spot in the 2nd Division would get their noses out of joint too.Still,could be possible with a lot of tinkering,thoughts?
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I guess this is the "elephant in the room" and I admire you for bringing it up. I was looking at the same thing earlier this year and a two tier comp. is exactly what is required. It's not only some of the newer clubs that face competition. When was the last time Ormond played finals with their first XI. I stand to be corrected but I reckon it would be over30 YEARS. How long can you cling on to the glory days of the late 60's and early 70's when they dominated the Subbies like no other side before or since?

Yet other inner city clubs like Caulfied and Malvern have been powerhouses of the comp. both in finals in participation and flags Please don't go with the "money thing" because it is more than that. Other recent entry clubs like Plenty Valley and Melton have worked hard and overcame the difficilties and capitalised on the advantages of their demographic areas.

I think we are both going to "wear some heat" over this, but the time is fast approaching for a 2 tier competition. The results of the last 3 seasons could be given a points value and the top 14 would become the Premier Group. Any side would misses the cut has the opportunity to prove the selectors wrong by winning the Div 2 flag and achieving immediate promotion. Both Premiers and runners up in Division 2 would be offered the opportunity to accept or decline promotion.

It will be a difficult "sell", because like Premier Cricket and even Cricket Australia, it is hard to see clubs not trying to protect themselves as opposed to the seeing the big picture. And the massive floggings will continue across all grades.

Over to you, boys.
 
You won't hear any complaints from me about the concept even though we would be in Division 2. I think it makes sense and keeps 'floggings' to a minimum. County Cricket have done it. Premier may do it. Works well in VTCA. Only negatives would be a lopsided geographical draw and those rivalries maybe being put into cotton wool.

One other thing, botton 2 in Div 1 down and top 2 in Div 2 up, no 'option' to accept & decline.

And chance of this happening? Close to zero, just like the points system!
 
Pleasantly surprised by the support boys!
No problems with the 2 up 2 down system,anyone who can remember some of the relegation battles in the old Vfa would endorse this.
Seen grown men cry watching relegation games in the EPL,atmosphere must be incredible.
Most of the old rivalry games would survive I reckon and your dead right floggings would be less prevalent.
how would this go for Division 1?
Altona
Melton
Williamstown
Brighton
Caulfield
Elsternwick
Malvern
Balwyn
Coburg
Kew
Plenty Valley
Box Hill
Oakleigh
Noble Park
Gives you 3 from the West and the East and 4 from the South and the North.
All the remainder go into the 2nd Division.
I've loosely based this mainly on performances over the last decade or so,now for the arguments.
 
Gets subjective now but Brighton have been consistent without winning many finals,are a strong club with a rich history and a foundation member,while Noble were winning championships not long ago after only joining fairly recently and their facilities are superb.
 
That's where things can get thrown out of wack. Does history and being a foundation member guarantee the 'top flight'? Suggest there wouldn't be many (maybe Crozier??) of Noble's championship team still at the club. It's just a matter of picking a time priod and picking the best 14 over that period.
 
I'd like to throw an idea back into the ring. This idea was discussed about 10 years ago, by the VCA. I always thought it had merit as a way of ensuring Victoria produced the best first class cricketers possible.
The idea was to get rid of Premier thirds and fourths and each Premier club "adopts" a VSDCA club as their feeder club. Each VSDCA club then has a list of professional players that stay at that club and form the basis of their team but also a second list of amateur players that can go back and forth between clubs depending on need. To balance out the 18 Premier to 28 VSDCA disparity of teams you either add another few more clubs to Premier cricket or get rid of some VSDCA clubs or both. You may end up with 20 to 24 teams in each Association. The total number of clubs could be determined by Cricket Victoria or by both Associations.
This would leave the VSDCA clubs as the feeders for Premier clubs and allow them to concentrate on producing juniors while Premier Cricket didn't have to worry about the cost of thirds and fourths but just concentrate on producing cricketers who could go on and play first class cricket. This means the VSDCA would become the junior breeding ground and money pumped into the VSDCA clubs would increase drastically so long as they could justify their existence by having a major undertaking of junior teams and specialised junior coaching.
It also means the best grounds are used by the best cricketers and also frees up many more turf pitches as some clubs are having trouble with their councils and the cost of providing suitable grounds. The influx of Premier thirds and fourths players into VSDCA clubs as well as the flow on to lower grade Associations would do wonders for the standards of cricket all over the state. And every time a club loses a promising youngster to Premier cricket it doesn't worry because it gets a Premier cricketer back immediately.
I see it as not only a win for both Associations but also a win for Victorian cricket in general. And a way for all clubs to grow stronger not disband or drop down to second grade as has been suggested. Any idea put forward should try to increase the standard of cricket not lower it.
 
The idea has been around for a while and as you espouse it, has a great deal of merit. But it is reliant on Cricket Victoria getting it through to their Premier clubs. As we have seen over the years, their clubs are not actually "hot houses", where good ideas germinate. Could you imagine St Kilda's delight at being told that they now have Ormond as their "feeder club." And, alternatively, a strong,well run club like Altona, copping North Melbourne?

I believe we should be pro active in our own competition and, if, the proposal you are advocating comes to fruition, I have no doubt that our own exectutive could deal with it competently.

With the 2 tier competition we have been discussing in Subbies, I think the "Kenny Fewster" tables should be the criteria for establishing the 2 divisions. I am inclined to agree with SS, "Foundation Member" is something you get to put on your website and stationery, it should "cut no "ice" in any selection process. I would argue that a maximum of 4 years should be the "cut off" period. Anything more and you start relying on outdated data, because of the changes in personel at most clubs.

It has been a good discussion boys, and it shows the quality of people and ideas floating around our clubs.

Keep it coming.
 
Intersting concept as to who would be aligned to whom. Without looking at Premier clubs, there's not many south/south east, would make for an interesting scramble.

Our comp, I believe is in reasonable nick, just need to bridge the gap between best and worst. I think it is incumbant on club administrators to try and do this, although it is not always in our control.
 
I fully agree with the proposals of both a two-tier competition and getting rid of 3rds and 4ths cricket.

The reality of it is that hell will freeze over before it happens because:

1) someone will use the travel argument;
2) the delegates have to vote on it;
3) it's too logical.

The VSDCA website doesn't even mention that the T20 Semi Finals were on last night, and yet we are expecting them to be proactive.
 
p-toe said:
The VSDCA website doesn't even mention that the T20 Semi Finals were on last night, and yet we are expecting them to be proactive.
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How about the fact that the VSDCA official who updates the website, who essentially works a second FT job as a volunteer is taking a well earned holiday. I'm sure it will be updated in the next 24 hours.

For those not on Twitter where the VSDCA had scores updated as soon as the matches were concluded - the results were:

Caulfield def Oakleigh
Melton def Balwyn.

Final to be played on Sunday, Feb 19 - venue TBA
 
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